WHat's hype and whats worth it?

[tilinmyowngrave]

Yesterday I went to drum classes. My teacher and I got into a discussion about drum sets. He said that Sonor (he ddint specify which series) can be pretty unreliable. I told him I didn't think DW was all that great. And we got into a conversation about all these lesser known drum companies that make kick ass sets (Brady, Tombura... or... i forgot, soem Italian drum company,I'll find out the name, but they make really nice drums).

SO heres my question... whats hype and whats real quality? This is a really subjective question, so I don't think their is any real answer... but I just want your opinions.

[my2cents]

dw is probably the only drum company i can think of that has what i would consider "hype". i have no opinion of them, but i'd rather spend the same wad of cash money on a set of vintage trixons and a used pickup truck.

most (probably all) of the name brand drum companies make excellent lines of drums and not so great lines. these days, bottom of the line for pearl, yamaha, tama, etc. is much, much higher than it was when i started playing in the '80s, and the prices don't seem to have gone up at all.

small, lesser known companies tend to make very fine instruments. they have to or they go under, because maintaining superior quality is the only way they can compete with the big guys and their glossy ad campaigns.

as for sonor, my only experience with them is a snare stand i bought several years ago which is crap. it's been a pain in the ass since the day i bought it. the screws holding it together always come loose, and if you forget to tighten them before a gig you're going to have a show stopping repair job on your hands...unless your band is a tribute to The Who, in which case you're in luck. jack dejohnette likes sonor though, and i'm not going to argue with that. as for them being unreliable, you could say that about any company. one guy is going to think x drum maker is amazing and the next guy will think they're crap.

[Kasey]

DW's do indeed sound nice, but not as nice as theyre hyped up to be. i personally think pearl is a hyped a tad too, but thats just me. i love yamaha sets. i dont know much about the 'lesser known' brands.

[tilinmyowngrave]

I really like the SOnor Delite drum set I heard... But his biggest complaint was that they made heavy drums, while sonor delite has really thin shells, so it must have been a different set he ehard. As for Sonor hardware... well, I really like the 600 series hardware, and the 400 series is OK, but 200 series hardware sux.

[drummerdude666]

Brandy make some of the nicest drums I've ever had the plesure of hearing.

DW are overrated. Pearl are good soild drums, i wouldnt say they have hype (but depends where you live i supose).

Mapex are underrated. I just bought an Orion and WOW they are amazing.

[tilinmyowngrave]

I believe its called "Brady" not "brandy"... maybe im wrong, I usually am...

[drummerdude666]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

I believe its called "Brady" not "brandy"... maybe im wrong, I usually am...

Sorry. Typo.

[Zilpex]

I felt the same about DW for a while but I started looking closely they have really nice finishes and and unique outer ply veneers that are spectacular. They make their own shells and have excellent hardware. I am also warming up to the nice fat round sound they have. I'd reconsider DW if you haven't checked them out in the last few years.

[tilinmyowngrave]

Yea I have. Sorry Zilpex, but my Tama SUperstar (1970-80's version, not the shitty new ones) sounds better than most DW birch drum sets. Of course, it might eb that I have a bias, since I own a superstar. And I think SOnor has nicer looking drums than DW. But i have t0 admit... DW hardware rocks. Especially those 9000 series pedals

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

Yesterday I went to drum classes. My teacher and I got into a discussion about drum sets. He said that Sonor (he ddint specify which series) can be pretty unreliable. I told him I didn't think DW was all that great. And we got into a conversation about all these lesser known drum companies that make kick ass sets (Brady, Tombura... or... i forgot, soem Italian drum company,I'll find out the name, but they make really nice drums).

SO heres my question... whats hype and whats real quality? This is a really subjective question, so I don't think their is any real answer... but I just want your opinions.

Well, a lot of companies are hyped out the wazoo. I mean, after all it's a business first and foremost. But I feel that just about every major drum company out there is making decent gear. Obviously, there is some garbage floating around - like those "HB" drums. Those people should be ashamed of themselves!

To me, the whole issue of "hype" has to do with the price of their drumkits.
Rest assured, DW does make good drums, and they offer a lot of variations in the sizes that are available, as well as the finishes, and their hardware is great.
BUT - and this is a big but - are their drums really worth the price difference between...let's say, their 10"x12" tom in piano black, and a Yamaha 10"x12" in Piano black, or a Pearl?

I would have to say no.

The most hyped drums right now are Orange County.
I mean, if you go to drum supply house, you can purchse the EXACT same lugs that OC uses, as well as the exact same drum shells.
And if you price the parts (and even include Drum Supply House doing the labor for you) you can build the exact same kit for THOUSANDS of dollars less.

So, what you are paying for is the "finish" (which you, or a commercial artist can do - any decent cabinet shop or car painter can put a pro finish on a drumkit) and the Orange County NAME.

That is where the hype is.

Sure there is some hype with Sonor....and it is based on their former reputaion of the company that Horst Link built. In the late 70's through the mid 80's - Sonor was THE name to have - their Signature drums were about half an inch thick, and man, they were simply incredible sounding.
I remember they used to have this advertisement with this big burly construction worker standing on top of one of their 12" Toms.

Sure, it was hype, but it was true that their shells were extremely strong, and heavy duty.

I've never really liked Tama - and I don't know why, I was always partial to Pearl over Tama. I think it was because I always liked the look and feel of Pearl's hardware.

When I was younger, and just starting out back in the 70's - Ludwig was "the kit to own", they had Bonzo, Roger Taylor from Queen, Alan White from Yes, Tommy Aldridge (when he was in Black Oak Arlansas, prior to his switching to Sonor, which was before he went with Yamaha)and a whole slew of these incredible drummers. I liked their hardware, and their drums were really heavy duty and sounded killer. Then Ludwig began focusing on Marching and School percussion and they became king of the educational market, but lost their standing as a leader in the drumkit market. Unless they do something really incredible, they will never be able to fully regain the standing they once held - which is a shame, considering the fact that their kick drum pedal was the one that started it all.

Then Sonor became the name to have.

So, yes, there is obviously a lot of hype - for all of them, but most of them make very good products....the question really boils down to - are they worth the price difference.


Here's a prime example - I've been using Axis pedals ever since they came out. I guess it was around 15 years or so ago somebody told me about them, and you couldn't get them in the stores. I called all over America for several weeks unti lI finally found a place in LA where I could order them. They cost me an arm and a leg it seemed at the time. (I mean back then a DW pedal could be bought for right around $100, a Speedking was going for probably $75 or so.) But they were worth it. I'm on my second set - not because the first ones wore out, but I wanted the longboard versions when they came out, and I was calling Darrel Johnston (owner of Axis) and pestering them to get the pedals. He gave me the ordering info on them, I called Interstate Music (one of my favorite places to buy gear - I've had a long, successful relationship with them so I've stuck with them) and the salesman at Interstate Music had to physically input the information into the system. I ordered the pedals then and there, called Axis an hour later to confirm, and they shipped me the pedals overnight from the factory.

So, since I have had nothing but EXCELLENT service form Axis - their pedals are the best I've ever played, and their service has been top notch for me.... I can't name another company who would do what they did for me, so I have always endorsed their products....is it hypre on their end...I don't think it is nearly as much as it SHOULD be. Sure, the pedals are a bit more than others, but it's an American made product by a small factory...hell, the owner still actually is out in the shop making pedals!

I doubt any of the "top dogs" at Pearl, Tama, or Sonor have ever made a drum....although I do know for a fact that both Lombardi and John Good at DW make drums, or at least have in the past.

I won't knock DW's quality - because it is good, but I just think they are over priced... plus, they had "Rikki Rocket" from Poison as an Endorser....and that hurt their reputation/credibility with me, because that was BLATANLY a bad slap in the face of millions of other deserving drummers.




Tim

[tilinmyowngrave]

Just to clairify things, I'm not saying DW is bad. DW's are fine drums. Very ncie sound. But there are better choices that are even cheaper.

[tilinmyowngrave]

WHat about Sonor Designers? Are those any good?

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

WHat about Sonor Designers? Are those any good?

Sure they are good.

But here's my thing. having built my own kit, I will never purchase a drumkit again - if I want another kit - I'll build it. It's too easy to do a little work yourself - even if it's just attaching the hardware - you'll have a kit of DW quality for about the price of a Pearl Export.



Tim

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Sure they are good.

But here's my thing. having built my own kit, I will never purchase a drumkit again - if I want another kit - I'll build it. It's too easy to do a little work yourself - even if it's just attaching the hardware - you'll have a kit of DW quality for about the price of a Pearl Export.



Tim

Tim, I think you are getting close to having me sold on building a kit. I redid my snare this way, by buying a keller shell and swapping in for the metal shell I had. What a difference! I could probably just buy the shells and swap out the hardware from my Tama kit (Rockstar. Mahogany shells.) and have a great sound. I could get the exact finish I want too. I love wood grain!

hmmmm....

Phil

[tilinmyowngrave]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Tim, I think you are getting close to having me sold on building a kit. I redid my snare this way, by buying a keller shell and swapping in for the metal shell I had. What a difference! I could probably just buy the shells and swap out the hardware from my Tama kit (Rockstar. Mahogany shells.) and have a great sound. I could get the exact finish I want too. I love wood grain!

hmmmm....

Phil

I have to agree with Phil. The only problem is I dont understand half the stuff on the website... All these different holes to be pre drilled, and for different reasons, it just confuses me. LOL I'll get it soem day, when I save the money for the shells. I think you have also sold me on Axis pedals. I have heard really good things about them, from everyone (drummers I know, my drum teacher) so I might get those instead of DW9000's. WHats the most responsive and fluid of the Axis pedals?

[Anders]

anyone tried pork pie drums? quality or hype? i know brad wilk from rage against the machine used to play them and also tim alexander from primus

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by Anders

anyone tried pork pie drums? quality or hype? i know brad wilk from rage against the machine used to play them and also tim alexander from primus

No Hype there.

Bill Detamore's work is top notch. I have a friend with a Pork Pie kit...it's a dark purple/metal flake finish with all black hardware it is simply stunning visually.
And it sounds great on top of that.


Tim

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

Tim, I think you are getting close to having me sold on building a kit. I redid my snare this way, by buying a keller shell and swapping in for the metal shell I had. What a difference! I could probably just buy the shells and swap out the hardware from my Tama kit (Rockstar. Mahogany shells.) and have a great sound. I could get the exact finish I want too. I love wood grain!

hmmmm....

Phil

Then Phil, you already know what is involved, and the quality of the sound of the keller shells.


Tim

[applejax]

Ditto, my2cents !!

[I M Green]

Good posting Tim.

Hmmm. I'm having a nostalgic moment here....

I made the mistake of buying a pro drumset based on my favourites drummers' endorsements. When I finally met most of them they told me that the drums they play are strictly on loan. Most of them had an old Grestch or Ludwig kit sitting at home. Very few pro drummers buy their own kits before they appear on MTV anyway. But I digress.

I look for the consistency and feild support of the maker. For example, when I was on tour a few years ago, the band I was with passed through Kansas City. I was happy to find a matching Zildjian China for my current cymbal setup in the local music store. It's not the same thing but yo know what Tim Brown and I mean. Make sure you can get parts for your kit at another store.

When I worked in a drum shop for a few years in the late 80's I got a pretty good look at drums and their construction. For me it was a toss up between Tama and Yamaha when it came to consistant quality. Truth be told, the Japanese have that quality control thing down to a science.

Although I'm not such a big fan of maple, Ayotte Drums, a smaller builder out of Vancouver started making some impressive drums. Ray Ayotte's finishes are to die for. I remember you could send him any colour sample (and I mean a guy sent a cut out piece of an album cover with his order,) and he would match it on the shells. I don't know if he still does that though. Did I mention the finishes were to die for?

This may come as a shock to some but, Ludwig, Grestch and Pearl (along with Zildjian ) had the worst quality control going at the time. I was heartbroken folks believe me.

Sonor was always expensive (but that has changed in the last decade) and their shells always frayed in the inside from poor drilling. I remember a 5 pc. Signature Series in the shop selling for close to $10,000. They had no luster and were brutal on the back. I should know, I was the one lifting them onto the showroom floor.

DW is a fine example of overhype. In the nineties they saturated the music industry with their endorsers. But who could afford upwards of $7000? Most of us resort to buying the equivalent of Pacific Whatevertheasstheyarecalled's with the R.O.C. hardware.

Oh and what Tim Brown said.

Cheers
Iain