Equipment list, missing anything ??

[Soulgolem]

Hi everyone, been lurking this forum a bit, just registred now.

I'm a newbie, I don't know much about recording, but there are many things i'm sure i already know, I'm very confused in this field, that's why i come for help.

Ok, here is what i want to do :
Record electric and acoustic guitars, vocals, piano and synths, bass and sampled drums either written in midi or created with a drum machine.

From what i know, i need :
- computer (got that covered)
- software (i was thinking cakewalk or protools)
- soundcard (I'm clueless)
- large condenser mic (Was thinking about the MXL V69)
- mic preamp ??? (What it's purpose, do i need one ? We have an A&H MixWiz)
- monitors (it's discussed a lot, but i'm not sure which to go for)

Are we missing anything ?

Thanks !!!!!
Francis.

[Nick The Man]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

Hi everyone, been lurking this forum a bit, just registred now.

I'm a newbie, I don't know much about recording, but there are many things i'm sure i already know, I'm very confused in this field, that's why i come for help.

Ok, here is what i want to do :
Record electric and acoustic guitars, vocals, piano and synths, bass and sampled drums either written in midi or created with a drum machine.

From what i know, i need :
- computer (got that covered)
- software (i was thinking cakewalk or protools)
- soundcard (I'm clueless)
- large condenser mic (Was thinking about the MXL V69)
- mic preamp ??? (What it's purpose, do i need one ? We have an A&H MixWiz)
- monitors (it's discussed a lot, but i'm not sure which to go for)

Are we missing anything ?

Thanks !!!!!
Francis.

Welcome to HR.com Francis!!!

your definitely gonna want some monitors.

and if you want to record all those instruments .... especially if you want to record them all at the same time your gonna need more than 1 LCD Mic

a mic pre amp is used to power the mic without this the mic will not work so your going to need those (mixers come with pres built in)

you might wanna get cubase for a program .... I've never used it but I've heard many good things


well..... i know i didn't cover everything but i hope i helped a little

Nick

[Nick The Man]

oh and alot of your answers can probably be found by using the search bar on the toolbar

give it a shot good luck

[timboZ]

If you go with protools mbox you will have the soundcard and preamp covered.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/240469/

Or you could go with this and have all the basics covered for $699
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/240478/

[Soulgolem]

Hi guys, thanks for the anwers.

Wouldn't it be of better quality in buying everything seperately ? And also, about the Mbox, since i already have a mixer with mic pre amps (allen and heath mixwizard), wouldn't be wiser to just buy a soundcard ? And how does a stand alone mic pre compare to my mixer's pre amps to the mbox's preamps ? Is it really worth it to have a dedicated mic pre amp ? I was looking at the great reviews for the Grace 101 mic pre.

Also what else would i need in hardware ? Compressors and EQs and such or is that all included in the recording softwares ?

Thanks.
Francis.

[treymonfauntre]

do you need to record more than 2 channels at once?

[Soulgolem]

I don't think i will, tracks should be recorded one by one, at most, in stereo.

Francis.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

What's your budget?

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Kevin DeSchwazi

What's your budget?

And goals! What level of quality are you trying to achieve? Amateur, pro-sumer, professional, etc.?

[Soulgolem]

Budget is around 1500 $, but I want things that will make the most noticeable difference. Also, a friend of mine will lend me Cakewalk, if i go with this software, some money gets back in the budget.

As for sound quality, let's just say I want all the instruments to feel real and as alive as possible. Being able to make a demo album which would be enjoyable to listen to, that doesn't make you stop to the quality of the recording rather than the quality of the songs. So i'd say, not amateur, but "wannabe pro" !! I know it will require a lot of mind bending once the equipment is in my hands, but I want to be able to tell myself "At least, if i had the knowleadge of a great producer, i could work with what I have to make something great out of a song".

I don't want to feel the need to resort to a pro-studio because my recordings suck, I'd rather want to think of them as a solution to greatly improve what I already have... hope I'm being clear.

Thanks, Francis.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

Budget is around 1500 $, but I want things that will make the most noticeable difference.

Aside from the characteristics of your room (mixing and recording) and your skills (engineering and performing), the most important elements are likely to be the mic, the preamp, and the A/D converter. The question is how to get all three for $1,500. My basic signal chain is an AT4050 into a Great River Me1nv to a Lucid 9624 AD. Each piece is decent but the overall cost is about $2,200. Maybe something like an AT 4040 or 4050, with a RNP, going into a decent M-Audio soundcard (Delta/Audiophile). That would set you back about $900-$1,200 depending on your mic choice. You could substitute a single chanel Grace mic pre for the RNP and that combined with an AT 4050 (or maybe even a Shure KSM 44) and M-Audio card would put you close to the $1,500 mark.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

From what i know, i need :
- computer (got that covered)

Just checking, but make sure your computer is ready to record audio. Make sure you have sufficient processor speed, storage space, RAM, and a fairly fast drive. Also you will want an available card slot or firewire port. A large monitor (17" min.) is also important for viewing software without too much aggravation. And check the noise levels on your current machine. If things are not quiet (particularly when using a LDC mic) you may need to place the computer in some type of isolation box or outside the recording room.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

Are we missing anything ?

Don't forget some utilities mics like the SM57 for micing guitar cabinets or a snare drum.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

- monitors (it's discussed a lot, but i'm not sure which to go for)

Search the forums for M-Audio BX series, Yorkvilles, and Wharfdales if you are on a limited budget.

[Soulgolem]

Hi, thanks for the suggestions,

I'm just very confused, I'm not sure what every piece you mentionned actually is... just now. Here I go with some additional inquiries.

How important is the mic preamp ? Would it make a big difference from using my mixer's preamps (A&H MixWiz) ? The Grace 101 seems to be in our price range, plus I heard great reviews, but if it's really a small difference from our mixer, I'd rather skip on that.

A/D converter, searching within many forums about recording, I've never heard anyone mention this in these terms, I thought this was the soundcard's job... Could you clarify this for me please ?

And as for the soundcard, is there an important quality issue between the different models, if so which one is suggested here exactly ?

for a mic, I was considering getting both an SM57 and a MXL 69V and we also own a Beta 87 in case of need, can the Beta 87 replace the SM57 if we need to ?

And about monitors finally, I'm gonna be checking reviews about them tonite, to learn a bit about their price/quality ratio.

Thanks guys, you are so helpful to me right now.
Francis.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

How important is the mic preamp ? Would it make a big difference from using my mixer's preamps (A&H MixWiz) ? The Grace 101 seems to be in our price range, plus I heard great reviews, but if it's really a small difference from our mixer, I'd rather skip on that.

This is pretty subjective but IMHO preamps, mics, and converters are ALL important parts of the signal chain. I wouldn't argue that one is more important than another and I wouldn't skimp on any of them.

Would the Grace make a "big" difference? Depends on your ears and your monitoring system (room, monitors, treatment, etc.). It also might depend on the number of tracks you record. Preamp limitations tend to add up across multiple tracks. And finally, it depends on the quality of the A&H preamps. They tend to get better reviews than the Mackie preamps but ultimately you're are talking about a $1,000 (appx.) mixer with eq, summing, busses, inserts, and multiple preamps. At some point you have to ask, "For one grand, how good could each component be?" The other thing to consider is that at some point everything you add becomes an incremental improvement in quality. Those "blow your socks off" moments become few and far between and you have to get used to slow but sure improvements.

Personally, I would eventually go for a new preamp since you don't need 8 channels. The Grace, the RNP, The John Hardy, the Great River Me1nv are all close to or under $1,000 and you shouldn't regret buying any one of them over time. You don't have to buy one right off the bat, however. I would play with the A&H to get a better sense of what it can or can't do.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

A/D converter, searching within many forums about recording, I've never heard anyone mention this in these terms, I thought this was the soundcard's job... Could you clarify this for me please ?

That's just a shorthand for "Analog to Digital." You will also come across the opposite: D/A or "Digital to Analog."

The soundcard does this job and so do external firewire interfaces. The question is how well. Most sound cards and interfaces handle A/D conversion and sometimes other tasks like preamping, monitoring, latency control, etc. When a single device handles multiple functions at a limited price point, you have to wonder about the quality of each component. As a result, many pro studios and a fair number of home recording types will augment their soundcard/interface with a stand-alone A/D or D/A converter.

[Soulgolem]

Thanks for the explanation on preamps, so if i got it right, it's good to have many different preamps to experiment with because they all make a track sound a bit different in feel is that it ? So i guess the best to do right now would be to use our mixer and hear the results and maybe buy some preamps in the future and rerecord some tracks with it to see if some might feel better. Does that make sense ? Or are you suposed to record everything with one preamp, how subtle are the differences by the way ?

About the A/D converters, if it's better to get one as a stand alone unit, which one would you recommend ?

Also, since the soundcard also acts as a preamp and A/D converter, and i choose to go for stand alone units, can you bypass these functions of the soundcard ? Or should i go for better quality souncard that doesn't have these functions ?

And last, how would this setup be better than an all-in-one bundle like the Mbox package ? A small deal, a great deal, the same ?

Thanks, I really appreciate all the help.
Francis.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

Thanks for the explanation on preamps, so if i got it right, it's good to have many different preamps to experiment with because they all make a track sound a bit different in feel is that it ? So i guess the best to do right now would be to use our mixer and hear the results and maybe buy some preamps in the future and rerecord some tracks with it to see if some might feel better. Does that make sense ? Or are you suposed to record everything with one preamp, how subtle are the differences by the way ?

Well equipped profesional studios will try different combinations of preamps and mics with different vocalists, instruments, song styles, etc. Some arrive at combinations that they return to regularly. And the best way to determine any particular configuration is experimentation. Now most of us don't have access to more than a small number of preamps. Some only have one set to work with. So many people end up using the same preamp or a limited number accross tracks. There really are not any rules other than recording what sounds right to your own ears. So my best advice would be to try the preamps in your mixer for now and get a handle on the recording process. Then, as your experience grows, look to add a new preamp. Try to avoid getting something cheap that won't give you any real improvement. Instead, take a closer look at some of the preamps discussed on this bbs.

I'm sorry if this sound qualified but all this stuff is highly subjective.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

About the A/D converters, if it's better to get one as a stand alone unit, which one would you recommend ?

Also, since the soundcard also acts as a preamp and A/D converter, and i choose to go for stand alone units, can you bypass these functions of the soundcard ? Or should i go for better quality souncard that doesn't have these functions ?

Take a look at the following:

http://www.mercenary.com/addaconversion.html

This will give you a sense of the price range for high quality stand-alone converters. The starting price for the lowest price unit is about $850. I use the Lucid AD and a number of people also like the Myteks.

http://www.atlasproaudio.com/

Of course, if your loaded you can always do better.

If you look closely at the connections for stand-alone converters, they provide some type of digital out that can be routed to the inputs of a soundcard. Once the converter changes the signal from analog to digital you essentially bypass the soundcard's AD converter by using a digital input.

For now, you should probably settle for a decent soundcard with plenty of inputs including digital. Once you get a handle on your recording routine and you're looking for some improvements, shoot for a stand-alone AD device.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Soulgolem

And last, how would this setup be better than an all-in-one bundle like the Mbox package ? A small deal, a great deal, the same ?

The M-Box is a usb device which many people suggest avoiding due to speed issues. Most people tend to use internal soundcards or firewire interfaces. As far a comparisons go, I'll go out on a limb and say that very few all-in-one interfaces can compete with a high quality stand-alone mic pre routed to a quality stand-alone AD converter. The Metric Halo or the RME Fireface might hold their own but it's hard to beat a customized setup.

[snow lizard]

I'm skeptical that any recording interface with its own preamps will be better than what you have with the A&H. You might want to look at a preamp if it's going to be a good, solid addition to your sound pallate. I'm running a PC with an old SRC console by Allen & Heath, and it's a bit noisy by today's standards, but it delivers just barely enough good, clean gain to fire up a ribbon microphone for vocals. This is good. Some cheap preamps will fall short of this. Something like a Great River MP-1NV will bring new sounds to the table, at something like 10 times the cost per channel. It's a very coloured preamp that can sound agressive but still focused to make the mixing challenge a bit easier - very good for rock guitars & such. Big sound. I'm lusting for the 2 channel version. Others like the Grace are more neutral, or transparent sounding. Neither choice is right or wrong, they're just different, and there's a ton of other choices. Allen & Heath is very respectable stuff. You have to remember that a lot of professional live recordings have been routed through a large format Allen & Heath console before going to the recording truck. There's better stuff available, but they're not new at this.

For starting out, you might get more mileage from using the A&H, and concentrating on good A/D conversion, good mics and good recording practices. The room will also come into play.

For converters, you might want to look at something like an M-Audio soundcard, or Lynx, RME or others that can deliver a bit better performance for more $$$. The M-Audio stuff is supposed to be very solid and reliable (I run a Delta 44 and I'm very happy with it for my needs, for now, and they're cheap) but others are supposed to have a more robust midrange. Every factor adds up, but many interfaces with built in preamps will not compare with your A&H, and the converters are probably no better than M-Audio.

Beyond that, what mics you get into for what you're recording, the sound of your recording space (the room) and your mic placement techniques will be far more important to the overall picture. In general, condensers are good for acoustic instruments, cymbals and percussion, and for including room sound. Dynamic mics are good for loud instruments and electric guitar amps and stuff, and they tend to reject the room a lot more. If your room sounds bad, dynamic mics are your friends. Ribbon mics can be made to sound great on just about anything, but they're very fragile and generally gain-hungry. Also, very high quality dynamic mics are a lot less expensive than very high quality condensers and ribbons, but there are a lot of respectable budget condensers out there. Each different model and type will bring something new to the table, so you may want to look around. A pair of instrument condensers will work well for acousitic guitar and piano. Shure SM 57 is a good starting point for electric guitar, but if you can swing the cash for a better mic, the SM 7b is a deadly vocal mic that can do double duty on a lot of different sources, and it's awesome on a guitar cab. There's also the Sennheiser 421 or 441, Beyer M201 and others. A good vocal mic can be practically anything, as long as it does what you want. The right choice for one vocal might sound bad on someone else, so it's important to experiment, and helpful to spend a bit of time reading about general mic palcement techniques to get you started.


Good luck,

sl

[Soulgolem]

Hi, thanks for your answers.

Decided to go for the buy-all-seperately option. So as of now, the only thing I'm still not sure about is the A/D converter and the soundcard.

So if i have a mic, preamp, a/d converter, soundcard, computer, software (cakewalk), monitors, I'm set ? Could I have incompatibility issues ?

Do all soundcard have internal A/D converters ? if so, how do i bypass it when using a standalone A/D converter ?

Thanks,
Francis.

[fraserhutch]

I didn't see any lava lamps in that list.

[MONKEY!]

RNC compressor and a lava lamp