My Label - Feasible?

Mikey likes it! · #1 08-05-2005

Okay, I would really appreciate it if a few people could discuss this with me, as everyone I talk to about it just stares back at me with a blank look on their face. -->

<-- Then, they give me the old "like I would know?"

Ok, what I am wanting to find out is if you think it's possible for me to start an indie label.

First,

THE MARKET:

The local music scene has always been pretty dead, but with the construction of several new venues, interest is slowly increasing.

Local bands and musical tastes consist of:
Country (most)
Rock (a lot)
Blues (a little)

THE BANDS AND PROMOTION:

The artists I want to sign:
I have my eye on a couple of unsigned local bands that are really good.
Once I sign a band and record a CD, I want to promote them heavily in our area, get them to play a lot of gigs, both free and paid. the band and I will take a percentage out of each paying gig to finance the mfg. of fanwear such as t-shirts and posters. At every gig, I'll operate a table that sells the band's CD's, plus the fanwear we had made.

I have connections at a couple of local radio stations and the newspaper, so I might could get fair airplay (providing the songs are good) and frequent press releases.

I also had the idea of printing a small flyer that contains news and info about my label's artists, making a few thousand copies and getting it slipped into the Sunday paper like the "Sale Paper" ads. I think the cost would be worth it.

I want to build a very strong local following for each band, before even considering expanding to other cities. I want my bands to be sort of like the "home team" that everybody roots for. (and buys tickets to see!

)

I realize I will have to pick a few really good (and marketable) bands at first, because I couldn't afford to produce records and then nobody buy them. And you can't record over used CD's. At first, I will take the profits my label earns and invest in recording equipment and my next project. Hopefully, as my label's popularity grows, so will the profits and I can put a little in the bank and re-invest the remainder.

SALES

We have several "mom and pop" book and music stores in our area that could sell my CD's without need of a barcode, although that would be mandatory in the future, for large sales to retail stores. I would also sell the band's CDs on their website as well as mine.

I am a marketing guru. I mean I LOVE to sell things. I would be constantly trying to sell CD's at any opportunity I came upon.

To get the band into it, I'd give them a higher percentage on the albums they sold themselves. That would keep them from having the "Hey, you own the record label. We make the music, you sell it." attitude.

INCOME

My label's income would come from CD/fanwear sales at gigs, music sales online, and I would also keep a small percentage (say 2%?) of any gigs/concerts that I lined up for the band.

THE BUSINESS

No employees, at least not at first. Too much paperwork regulations and trouble. I'll handle it all myself. No business expenses, I'll run it from home and meet bands and contacts on their turf.

THE PROBLEMS

1. I have no money.
2. I have no studio to record the bands in.

I do have a couple of computer recording programs, but I threw my cassette recorder out when it tore up. (and I killed it even deader when I tried to fix it

) But my house does not sound good enough for a professional recording.

That said, Do you think a professional studio would let me record my band for a cut of the profits? I could record them myself, so all I would need is the studio, no session musicians or Producer.

Would a band be willing to help finance their project in return for the following?

1. Me doing all the work
2. Getting a professional quality CD
3. Having the recognition and credibility of being backed by a label
4. Being constantly promoted

Or would they rather just do it themselves and leave my label in the dust?

MY ATTITUDE

I realize that all this will be a lot of work, but I have no problem with that. Any new business venture requires a load of work to get off the ground. Nobody ever had it easy starting a business, and those that say they did are probably lying. I'm not wanting to do this for the money, but because it's what I love to do. Sure, I want my label to turn a good profit someday, but I'm not in it for the money. I can't understand why someone would become a musician or label owner just to become rich & famous. I started playing guitar because I wanted to play guitar, not because I wanted girls to think I was the best thing since sliced bread. (ok, ok, they are a nice side effect

)

I have a strong sense of DIY, and would much rather do something myself than to try and get someone else to do it for me. I'm good at stretching dollars, (although some banks don't want to take them afterwards) and I think I could keep my business alive on a limited budget.

HOW YOU CAN HELP ME

Ok, what do you think? If I left out anything, or something isn't clear, just let me know and I'll answer your questions. Basically, I want you to quiz me so I'll know if I have all my bases covered.

I don't have to have answers to my questions, just more questions for me to answer. If you give me a question that I cannot answer, then I'll know my plan needs more work.

Thank you very much for your help

Goldcan · #2 08-05-2005

You mentioned going to a pro studio and using their gear, do you even know how to use their gear? I don't know a lot but I don't think any studio will let you come in and hop on their gear and do it yourself (besides if you don't know how to use the gear how could you create a professional quality CD).

Seems to me that you're just going to have to be the middle man for all of this for free, becuase why would a band want to share profits with you when all you essentially do is take them to someone elses studio on their money, and then setup a table at the gig wanting 2% of the profits when they can just get a friend or wife of a band member to do it for nothing?

You'd have to be one charmin' mofo to talk a band into that.

Mikey likes it! · #3 08-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldcan

Seems to me that you're just going to have to be the middle man for all of this for free, becuase why would a band want to share profits with you when all you essentially do is take them to someone elses studio on their money, and then setup a table at the gig wanting 2% of the profits when they can just get a friend or wife of a band member to do it for nothing?

Because they want a record deal.

Have you ever heard the sewage-filled trench story?

Goldcan · #4 08-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey likes it!

Because they want a record deal.

Have you ever heard the sewage-filled trench story?

No, they want a record deal with someone that will offer them millions. Not some guy on the side that printed up some business cards and said I"ll be there in the trenches for you but can't offer really anything.

Why would they come to you when they could just create their own label and company, least they'd have some equipment to start out with.

I just think you're in for a big dissappointment.

Mikey likes it! · #5 08-05-2005

Wrong idea about the trench.

A friend of mine emailed this to me a while back.

Quote:

Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a record label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with disgusting, stinking sewage. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end, holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed.

Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the sewage stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Most give up and climb out of the trench, so eventually there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says, "Actually, I think you need a little more development.
Swim it again, please.

Backstroke."

And he does, of course.

Goldcan · #6 08-05-2005

What the hell does the have to do with anything you were talking about? You're wanting to make an indie label, so you're obviously not the faceless label with the fountain pen, WTF are you getting at?

Mikey likes it! · #7 08-05-2005

I was just telling an amusing story.

The band would want to sign with me to get good recordings on CDs and have them promoted while they are free to play their music. The band I have in mind has no interest in recording themselves. They just want to make a living playing their music. In order to make it, they need to sell records. They're great musicians, vocalists and songwriters. The winning formula for a fledgling label.

I've talked to them about their signing a deal, (I didn't tell them about my wanting to start a label) and they said they didn't want to deal with a big label pressuring them for new material and a few other reasons. They just want to make their music at their own pace. And I just want to record it.

Okay, forget the idea about giving points to a pro studio. What if I bought an 8-track digi and mixed down on my computer?

And the 2% is not for manning the table, but for booking dates. This would only be until the label got up and running. Me selling merchandise would be part of my job, no extra charge.

Mikey likes it! · #8 08-05-2005

In essence, my job would be a combo of record label/booking agent/promoter. When you own a small business, you wear all the hats.

Goldcan · #9 08-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey likes it!

I was just telling an amusing story.

The band would want to sign with me to get good recordings on CDs and have them promoted while they are free to play their music. The band I have in mind has no interest in recording themselves. They just want to make a living playing their music. In order to make it, they need to sell records. They're great musicians, vocalists and songwriters. The winning formula for a fledgling label.

I've talked to them about their signing a deal, (I didn't tell them about my wanting to start a label) and they said they didn't want to deal with a big label pressuring them for new material and a few other reasons. They just want to make their music at their own pace. And I just want to record it.

Okay, forget the idea about giving points to a pro studio. What if I bought an 8-track digi and mixed down on my computer?

And the 2% is not for manning the table, but for booking dates. This would only be until the label got up and running. Me selling merchandise would be part of my job, no extra charge.

....sigh.... You've fallen into the same thing I did when I first got here. spending $500 dollars is not going to let you be able to create "Professional Quality CD's"

If you buy an 8-track, where would you record, is it treated (the room), what mics are you using, what pre amps are you using, blah blah blah and still add onto that more information I haven't learned yet.

My personal opinion is learn the industry you're getting into before you bring someone else into it, know how to record/produce/mix/etc before you make promises to a fledgling band that you'll more than likely dissappoint. You owe it to yourself and your bands to know wtf you're talking about and doing before you start wheelin' and dealin'.

Mikey likes it! · #10 08-06-2005

Exactly the answer I was looking for.

Now, how do I go about learning the industry?

I know how to record/mix/produce with an analog four track, (I've made several demos that have a pretty high sound quality) but digital recording is a whole new deal for me.

Goldcan · #11 08-06-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey likes it!

Exactly the answer I was looking for.

Now, how do I go about learning the industry?

I know how to record/mix/produce with an analog four track, (I've made several demos that have a pretty high sound quality) but digital recording is a whole new deal for me.

Well as it was explained to me, the very basics for digital recording is: Microphone to Pre-amp to soundcard to computer, w/ software to run it all and monitors (speaker like things) to hear it all with. Unless I missed the point of the whole conversation, but I think I'm pretty close. Of course you also want to check into treating your recording space, sound proof it, acoustically treat it. http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#top is a great place to start, you can also check out http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

After that just start searching. Go to the mic forum and search there for what kind of mic you might want to do your recordings with, but sit down and write out what you want to be able to do and then search for exactly what you'll need to do that with. then go to the In The Rack forum and search about Pre amps, and then to the computer and software forums and research.

Biggest thing is READ READ READ, you're going to have questions, thousands of them, but you'll get a lot better reception if you show that you've done some searching before asking the same question that's been posted here a thousand times before. Trust me I'm guilty of it, too. You won't always find the answer to exactly what your question was by searching, but you'll generally find something that will get you close and point you in the right direction.

There's not one end all explanation to any of this, if there is I haven't found it, and by reading the posts of those with 10k + posts they never found it either, they found what worked for them, and that won't always work for you.

Be prepared to do a lot of reading, go to a music store and ask questions about gear, but most of all, you will need some money, you can do good recordings for LITTLE money, but not NO money unless you find someone to let you use their gear for free, if you do let me know so I can go over there and save some money.

Be prepared to spend some time doing all of this as well, no one around here that I've found bought the equipment and the next day became huge successes.

That's just my two uneducated cents.

Mikey likes it! · #12 08-06-2005

Thanks for being the only one to help me out.

I'll study those sites carefully.

Goldcan · #13 08-06-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey likes it!

Thanks for being the only one to help me out.

I'll study those sites carefully.

The way I see it is that someone gave me their time once when I needed it. If you have more questions PM me and I"ll try my best or point you to someone or somewhere that can.

fraserhutch · #14 08-06-2005

Mikey,

Yu say you have no money and no recording studio? There is NO way anyone with any intelligence would sign with you as a label. At least I hope not.

And if you have no money and are as green as you sound, forget about recording this stuff yourself and competing. As anyone in this board can tell you, it's quite a learning curve here.

Sounds like you might want to try to bring in as a manager/promoter type.

As for how to learn the industry - get involved and work your way up. That really is the only way. You can read books till your eyes dissolve and hang out here all day, but in the end, you learn this business by working at the business.

Mikey likes it! · #15 08-06-2005

Goldcan: I wish more people felt that way.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

treymonfauntre · #16 08-06-2005

this is how most diy indie labels work:

- band records on their own budget
- a person that has a label with a big contacts list for distribution/wholesale/promotion saves up enough money to press the recording onto vinyl or cd or whatever
- the band gets about 20% of the records for free and buy the rest at cost to sell for however much they want. the label gets rid of the rest through mailorder or however the fuck else they want.

the label has helped the band by fronting the money, getting their release intot he hands of distros/stores across the country, and promoting them. they can even help with making other merch like shirts and stickers.
if the band breaks up the label is pretty much screwed. thats just how it works unless you want to get into contracts. most labels are created out of a desire to help their friends release records. intending to get rich by releasing records is a dream of the past.

grn · #17 08-06-2005

it seems to me like the decision was made before the post was written... just do it, try, why not? it will be fun. you will definitely learn something and it might work out and you might make money.

gullyjewelz · #18 08-06-2005

well mikey

as an aspiring artist/record label owner my self

i am intrigued by your initial post -- it sort of captures my own zeal for "what the fuck should i be doing with my life, anyhow!!!???!!!"

although i am a hip hop artist - i am constantly searching for the right "connection" to have things rolling the right way

the only thing i don't "feel" about your plan is the recording aspect . . . the way i see it, what i do on my own is pay for my own studio time at a studio i am very comfortable with (regarding quality sound) -- however i only use them once i feel that i have created a song and learned so thoroughly that i can pretty much "1 take" it in their studio -- allowing ample time for them to mix it down n master it -- in 1 session

from my perspective, yes it would be great to have a lable (indi or major) DO EVERYTHING FOR ME as an artist, BUT AS OF YET such seems unrealistic . . .

i am willing to work with someone . . . meet them half way so to speak

but that's me!!!

keep doin what u doin . . . . as must I

Mikey likes it! · #19 08-06-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

- the band gets about 20% of the records for free and buy the rest at cost to sell for however much they want. the label gets rid of the rest through mailorder or however...else they want.

Thanks for your info, Treymonfauntre. I wonder if you could clarify this, you said the band buys "the rest" at cost, but then you say the label gits rid of "the rest" however thay want. Do you mean the label sells whatever the band doesn't buy? If so, what about royalties?

GRN: thanks for being positive.

But what would happen if it didn't go over?

Gullyjewelz: I have known for quite some time now that owning a record label is my goal. I want to give a chance to artists that the majors pass over because the don't fit the current sound, and don't believe they can make money off them. I want to release the work of true musicians, not some pop puppet that sounds like every other pop puppet in the top 40.

Quote:

from my perspective, yes it would be great to have a lable (indi or major) DO EVERYTHING FOR ME as an artist, BUT AS OF YET such seems unrealistic . . .

What about David Geffen? He owned Asylum and Lookout Management.
Think I could be like David Geffen?

grn · #20 08-07-2005

then you'd find something else to do

Cloneboy Studio · #21 08-07-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldcan

You mentioned going to a pro studio and using their gear, do you even know how to use their gear? I don't know a lot but I don't think any studio will let you come in and hop on their gear and do it yourself

I did that for YEARS before I landed a full time, permanent position at a studio. If you are bringing them business they'll let you produce it. Heck, you can even keep about 50% of the studio fee!

Cloneboy Studio · #22 08-07-2005

ATTENTION: VERY HARD "REAL WORLD" VIEWPOINT AHEAD....

Honestly, your experience in four track recording amounts to crap if digital recording vexes you. You have neither the equipment or experience to put out quality CD's, nor do you have the time to do so.

Plus, your job is finding and developing talent, getting tours set up and getting distribution for the bands *NOT* recording.

Making a quality recording that actually has a chance in hell of selling isn't something you do in a typical weekend on crap gear. Minimum buy-in cost for a decent studio IMHO is about 50k. The amount of time to make a good sounding record? At least 50 hours, more like 100-200 if you really care about the craft and try a few options. ...and that's being conservative.

SOLUTION: Find a local engineer to produce bands for you. When Sub Pop started out neither Poneman or Pavitt were studio hounds, so they hooked up with Jack Endino and Reciprical Recording.

Bands don't want/need someone to sell promo/swag for them. If they aren't doing it themselves I wouldn't even *CONSIDER* them as a serious investment for a label. The strength that any label has is DISTRIBUTION and MONEY. Okay, so you don't have the money (yet)... so you have to find distribution.

SOLUTION: Find the best, most "now" bands that have a chance to be signed and get them out there. Build your label's name with the band's name. Keep bugging big record labels until they see the need to deal with you because you have a band they want to sign, make access to their distribution through a subsidiary part of the contract deal.

I think you need way more education in what a label does, HOW it makes money, and develop yourself into a position to succeed. Right now, IMHO, you are doomed to total failure.

I'm not saying don't do it, I just don't think you are prepared yet. Get your ducks in a row and try it out. Screw those who say you can't do it, there's only one way to find out and that's hanging it all out there.

Good luck man.

illustriousday · #23 08-07-2005

Mikey,
Find a band with a finished product...
there are alot of bands out there with finished products but can't
afford duplication.
Invest $1000 for the dups (credit card if u like)
put your label logo on each cd. and
and sign a contract with the band that after u make back your investment
the rest will be split by %. Make sure all the cd's are barecoded for
soudscan. It's a gamble so make sure you find a band that can move cds....that's the hard part

jim
illustriousday.com

fraserhutch · #24 08-07-2005

Quote: