Reverb?

[Homeville]

So, I want to make sparse, scratchy, reverb-drenched songs. Like a broken down barn.

I have: A TASCAM 424 MKII (and headphones), 2 mics (a Green Bullet for vocals, and SM58 for whatever), and assorted instruments. What else do I need? What do I use for reverb on everything that isn't through my guitar amplifier (which has nice reverb)? I'm particularly concerned about my voice.

Should I use a plan old guitar pedal reverb?

Do I need a pre-amp?

I like lofi, but I want it to sound decent, demo quality (indie-label demo quality not, say, major label demo quality).

Thanks in advance!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by Homeville

So, I want to make sparse, scratchy, reverb-drenched songs. Like a broken down barn.

Why? As far as I know, there's no shortage of bad-sounding, crappy music these days.... why add to the pile?

And I'm not being facetious either - it's a serious question!

[Homeville]

Wow, what an oblivious tool! Well, I'll answer you in two parts:

1. Because some people listen to music for the songs and not snot-slick production. This is the kind of music I listen to, this is the kind of music I want to make. There are other people out there who dig it too. Ever hear of the Elephant 6 collective? They made some of the best and most critically lauded music of the last 25 years with a couple of four-tracks. Obviously, I'm not making music for you or people like you anyway. You can go ahead, pop a Viagra and put on what ever homogenized monstrosity you call music and go to town for all I care.

2. You must be a genuinely horrible and pathetic human being to flame a newbie for asking an honest question. I'm going to go out on a limb and wager a few guesses about you. I'll bet you're a baby-boomer. You've always wanted to be a musician, but you're creatively impotent. You realized at some point you're a little over the hill for your dreams of musicianship, so you compensate by spending half-a-million on recording equipment and recording other musicians. That's fine. Have fun recording the local Kiwanis club in your massive studio. I'll be busy making the music I like for the people who like it.

[lurgan liar]

hmmmm was there really any need for that?

I know for a fact i'd rather listen to better sounding records than crap ones ... thats why i come on this forum every day so i can learn from Blue Bear , Farview and numerous others .....

Ok there are some records that don't have perfect production ...such as some of Bob Dylan's records ...but they were produced that way on purpose ....

I know for a fact i am greatful for all the advice i learn from guys like Blue Bear

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by Homeville

Wow, what an oblivious tool! Well, I'll answer you in two parts:

1. Because some people listen to music for the songs and not snot-slick production. This is the kind of music I listen to, this is the kind of music I want to make. There are other people out there who dig it too. Ever hear of the Elephant 6 collective? They made some of the best and most critically lauded music of the last 25 years with a couple of four-tracks. Obviously, I'm not making music for you or people like you anyway. You can go ahead, pop a Viagra and put on what ever homogenized monstrosity you call music and go to town for all I care.

2. You must be a genuinely horrible and pathetic human being to flame a newbie for asking an honest question. I'm going to go out on a limb and wager a few guesses about you. I'll bet you're a baby-boomer. You've always wanted to be a musician, but you're creatively impotent. You realized at some point you're a little over the hill for your dreams of musicianship, so you compensate by spending half-a-million on recording equipment and recording other musicians. That's fine. Have fun recording the local Kiwanis club in your massive studio. I'll be busy making the music I like for the people who like it.

That's an awful lot of bullshit thrown together in a couple of short paragraphs, skippy.........

If a song was worthwhile to write, then why wouldn't you make it worthwhile to listen to?
'nuf said.........

[Mo-Kay]

hahaha watch this newbee kill it! haha that was a real punch in the face.

Gotta admit I like the sharp tongue, but c'mon now, that wasn't really called for.

And Blue Bear...you didn't really have to reply like that, did you?

Would you say the same to somebody that want's to know how to get really broken, f*cked up sounds from his synthesizer because he's doing electropunk?


He didn't ask for your opinion...asking for an opinion is not a "how can I" question!


just my opinion...

[Fieva]

Ouch. I'm agreeing with Mo-Kay on that one. I think Blue takes some stuff to heart and gets opinionated sometimes, but sometimes he makes good points (this I think can go either way, because it's a perspective issue with no clear cut right or wrong). Yeah that whole conversation went a little too J. Springer style and probably shouldn't have been said. Different people have different tidbits of advice and experience in all kinds of different genres. If that's the way you want to record it, then that's the way you meant to record it. Like lurgen said, some of Bob Dylan's stuff was done on purpose. If Homeville sees the audience and wants to target that audience, then it's his deal to test out.

Anyway, back to the original question. If you want reverb, the best options I can think of is plugins with your sequencer software or available online or a hardware reverb added to your rack. Any other suggestions?

[fraserhutch]

I'm with bear on this one - the sentence "sparse, scratchy, reverb-drenched songs. Like a broken down barn" is full of negative connotations.

Bear didn't argue that this newbie's skill or gearwould result in bad recordings, I think he was referring to the fact that the newb appears to intentionally want to make poor-sounding recordings.

That's how I read it too.

So, newb, get off yer high horse.

[Fieva]

If that's what he wants to do, then let the man experiment with it and see if that's still what he wants to do or not....that's all I'm sayin'.

[Homeville]

Originally Posted by Fieva

If Homeville sees the audience and wants to target that audience, then it's his deal to test out.

Thank you.

I'm sure Blue Bear knows a whole bunch about what kind of equipment to get if you have $500,000 dollars and want to record your local Kiwanis club, but that's not what I'm going for, so he can feel free to stop wasting picas on something he doesn't understand.

There's a whole movement (going back to Dylan, actually)that wants to return to a more stripped down authentic sound, not unlike the field recording of yore. That's what I want. Believe it or not, this can still be "worthwhile to listen to..." Artists such as The Mountain Goats, the Olivia Tremor Control, or Neutral Milk Hotel use their lofi aesthetic as an asset, and I bet they have a larger following than "BlueZ'inc."

In my opinion, the surest way to suck the life out of music is to make it sound immaculate, like it came from a machine. Plus, I can't relate to that. That isn't how I feel, and that isn't how I feel life is.

Maybe my description is full of negative connotations to you, fraserhutch, but not to me, or many others. I dig that sort of thing, you don't. Whatevs. I don't want to "intentionally make poor sounding recordings," just different sounding ones. I think really slick sounding recordings sound poor. Poor is relative, isn't it?

Anyway, I appreciate the actual advice, Fieva.

[Mo-Kay]

right on, just let him do it if he likes...

[Fieva]

Now was that so hard?

[lurgan liar]

Yeah, i personally know a local band who are going for a Punk Garage Blues kinda sound ....real rough and ready like it was recorded in a garage with like car engines running and other weird effects in it ... it works really well ...

Theres only a guitarist and a drummer ....and the guitarist plays through a big bass speaker with a low tuning and a slide with the distortion cranked up ...and he can make it almost sound like a motorbike ...he calls it PUNK GROWLER BLUES ... its excellent

the guy has asked around various studios how he might go about recording this unique kind of sound in the studio and they basically have told him that it would be pretty much impossible ....
so he has to experiment with diferent micing techniques in his own garage .... very creative .....

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Homeville

Maybe my description is full of negative connotations to you, fraserhutch, but not to me, or many others. I dig that sort of thing, you don't. Whatevs. I don't want to "intentionally make poor sounding recordings," just different sounding ones. I think really slick sounding recordings sound poor. Poor is relative, isn't it?

Anyway, I appreciate the actual advice, Fieva.

So you actually want to add scratchy-ness to your music?

I am not talking about the differences of lo-fi vrs hi-fi. Both can sound good. But intentionally adding scratches and drenching in reverb?

OK, whatever.

You can get a lot of cheesy, free verb plugins on the web - do a search under the computer music forum for threaqds referencing krkaudio and you'll get a list of sites.

[Homeville]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

So you actually want to add scratchy-ness to your music?

I am not talking about the differences of lo-fi vrs hi-fi. Both can sound good. But intentionally adding scratches and drenching in reverb?

OK, whatever.

You can get a lot of cheesy, free verb plugins on the web - do a search under the computer music forum for threaqds referencing krkaudio and you'll get a list of sites.

No, I wouldn't "add" scratchy-ness artificially (that would sort of defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?) but that sound is a natural by-product of a certain process which I happen to find pleasing.

It's not like I record something and say "okay, how can I make this sound shitty?" I just want a certain process that leads to a certain sound. I came here looking for help with that, and I got insulted. I'm not looking for your value judgements about my descriptors, because, chances are, you wouldn't dig what I'm trying to do anyway. I can accept that just fine. I don't care if you like the sound I'm going for or not. But why waste time bashing my aesthetic (which, by the way, you've never heard) when what I asked for was a technical question?

Thanks for the actual advice however.

[Pughbert]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Why? As far as I know, there's no shortage of bad-sounding, crappy music these days.... why add to the pile?

And I'm not being facetious either - it's a serious question!

Because he wants too? why do you make music? - same reason?, thought so.

[Homeville]

Actually this whole discussion reminds me of clothes.

When I was in high-school I liked to shop at the Salvation Army. I really like vintage clothes. Sometimes they were a bit worn, but they seemed to have a lot more character to me than yet another Abercrombe or Old Navy shirt. My friends were the same way, and we would go thrift store shopping together. People couldn't understand why we would buy these old clothes, and further more, actually like these clothes better than their over-priced t-shirt. Because they had more personality, because they provided this connection with the past we thought was interesting, and because we just couldn't identify with the culture that the newer clothes represented.

Same goes for music.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Homeville

It's not like I record something and say "okay, how can I make this sound shitty?" I just want a certain process that leads to a certain sound. I came here looking for help with that, and I got insulted. I'm not looking for your value judgements about my descriptors, because, chances are, you wouldn't dig what I'm trying to do anyway. I can accept that just fine. I don't care if you like the sound I'm going for or not. But why waste time bashing my aesthetic (which, by the way, you've never heard) when what I asked for was a technical question?

Oh, puleeeze. Grow up. Welcome to the real world.

[Homeville]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

Oh, puleeeze. Grow up. Welcome to the real world.

I love when people ceremoniously welcome others to the real world like they're the arbiters of it.

Sounds to me like you just spit out three dissmissive catch-phrases without engaging with what I said.

Great Gravy! Is this how this place usually works? I just wanted to know about reverb!

[Mo-Kay]

homeville....get over your "ooooooh I'm so alternative!" thing allright? I agree you haven't been treated fairly but quit whining already.

[Megaman]

Originally Posted by Homeville

So, I want to make sparse, scratchy, reverb-drenched songs. Like a broken down barn.

I have: A TASCAM 424 MKII (and headphones), 2 mics (a Green Bullet for vocals, and SM58 for whatever), and assorted instruments. What else do I need? What do I use for reverb on everything that isn't through my guitar amplifier (which has nice reverb)? I'm particularly concerned about my voice.

Should I use a plan old guitar pedal reverb?

Do I need a pre-amp?

I like lofi, but I want it to sound decent, demo quality (indie-label demo quality not, say, major label demo quality).

Thanks in advance!

I still have the same Tascam...back in high school when I first got it and didn't know much, I used a Boss multi effect pedal and plugged my mic in it and went into the tascam for a bit of reverb. Never tried it with any other stomp boxes though should work though if you have a stomp reverb...but you can try it and mess with the settings.

[Fieva]

Not usually from what I've seen. It all boils down to personality types.

[FALKEN]

kiss my ass, geezers! I don't know what the hell a "broken down barn" is supposed to sound like, but whatever. howbout an hr comp of all the "drenched sparse reverbery wall of sound phasey flangey pitch shifting creamy milky analog bass drum compressor why?!" songs? then you guys could get together and mic up your RNC's with your u87s. no wait, I mean SPs. yeah. let the RNC actually make the music. as long as it's DI'd thru an avalon it'll be phat. make sure to put a reverb plug on it. oh, and make sure to tell the mastering guy to make it quieter, because its too loud.

[mr.rich]

i dont think the sounds that this person is looking for should be linked with a shitty sound at all. i asume he wants a grass roots feel to his music and wants a reverb which will fill that aesthetic. many many albums have been made with such a aural feel and sold a ton of units. iron and wine went from scratchy barn verb country 4 track recordings to being one of sub pops more popular artists of late. microphones engineer and artist phil elvrum does huge low fi productions that sound like mud really, but it works damn well and enough people like his stuff that he gets to fly around and produce.

recording is a medium to get across the feel and creativity of an artist. this medium has NO FUCKING RULES.

[Homeville]

Yeah, actually Iron and Wine and Phil Elvrum (microphones, mt. erie) are right in line with what I want to do, Mr Rich. I'm glad someone got it. I was just looking for advice on how to do that. I really like that sort of sound.

Don't know how everything got so wacky.