+4dBu on Tascam M512 Mixer?

[GoodGrades]

Which of these two 8 bus mixers are better, cleaner, E.Q?

[The Ghost of FM]

The A&H will have better s:n specs and lower distortion numbers but as to which sounds better is largely a matter of personal taste and opinion.

Keep in mind too that once noise and distortion numbers fall below human thresholds, it won't matter.

As an example, most forms of THD aren't audible to the human ear until they get into the 3 to 10% spec and the specs on both these boards fall well below those numbers.

Same thing goes for the noise specs and here's where they cheat as manufacturers; They'll tell you the best number in their brochures and the real numbers in the manuals. Meaning; they talk about one line in to one program out and not 20 microphones all connected, feeding stereo busses. This is where they separate the pro from the amateur stuff and the prices go into the realm of buying a house or high end car to get a truly clean desk.

Tape hiss is often the least of our problems in an analog studio.

Cheers!

[GoodGrades]

Thanks, Ghost,

I'm not at all repelled by a slight amount of distortion or tape hiss.
I see them both as personality traits.

I think I'd like to go with the Tascam M512. I'll be recording, most likely, on a Tascam 58 8 track.

But, Ghost, could you please tell me if the Tascam M512 is a true +4dBu. The seller of the mixer informed me that the manual mentions nominal output at +4dBu, but that it can be adjusted to +8dBu. But I've heard from other online sources that the M512 is set at -10dBV. So I'm confused...

Also, I should mention that I'm a novice, and that I really can't distinguish between the meanings of -10dBV and +4dBu. All I know is that the Tascam 58 has XLR I/O and RCA I/O. The Tascam M512 mixer has XLR ins on all channels and 8 XLR outs on the 8 busses. Everything else is RCA.
My gut tells me to stick with XLR and +4dBu.
Another Question: Does XLR automatically mean +4dBu??

Your help would be much appreciated. Thanks

[The Ghost of FM]

The M512 as well as the 58 recorder are designed to work in either level environment and they do so because they knew that most home and project studio users keep the recorders quite close to the mixer and therefore don't require +4db, balanced connections which are only a true necessity when your cable runs between the mixer and the recorder exceed 30 feet.

The whole nature and reason for balanced cable connections running at +4db signals was born out of the necessity to get a signal from point A to B and not have it pick up noise from radio frequency interference or to have the signal strength diminish too much by the time the signal got to the other end of the wire. This system of balanced cables came from the phone company originally where signals have to travel great distances. In most home studios, balanced, +4db signals are un-necessary and is why TASCAM had the good sense to offer both on these models.

Balanced +4db signals do not sound one iota better then unbalanced, -10db signals. In fact, from a circuitry perspective, unbalanced signals are less processed and have less phase anomalies in them.

-10db, unbalanced signals have the required strength that is needed to get from A to B and save you a few bucks in the process too as simple, decent RCA cabling is generally less expensive then heavy, balanced cables and the pricier Canon/XLR connectors.

And, XLR does not automatically mean +4db. Most microphones output -60db signal strengths and make use of this connection design.

Cheers!

[acorec]

Originally Posted by GoodGrades

Which of these two 8 bus mixers are better, cleaner, E.Q?

Allen and Heath have great consoles.

[GoodGrades]

I was going to buy a Tascam m512 mixer but I found this cool looking Allen and Heath mixer on Ebay. Its got like 5 days left, so help me out. Both boards are 8 bus and have I think XLR outs on the busses. I'd say based on specs they are pretty comparable. But which one do you think is better in the noise to floor ratio? I'm planning on buying a Manley dual mono preamp and using either board for its eq and 8 bus. Running to tape.

Thanks

[The Ghost of FM]

I can't find any specs on the system 8 from A&H?!

Just some propaganda from a 1985 Mix magazine, September issue.

Cheers!

[lutonbod]

If anyone is interested i have an M512 for sale...

I work as a technician in a music schoool near London and were selling it as we are upgrading our studio. The desk has a lovely warm sound but it just doesnt meet our needs / requiremnets - Its only had light use in the last few years so it would be nice to see it go to a new home.. I'd keep it if i thought i copuild use it but sadly i dont have need for it...

Sensible offers welcomed..

Email for more info or pics