open or closed headphones?

[vanishbox3]

i'm a newbie here and i've searched for threads on headphones already... but i just didn't find anything that totally answered my question.
you can all shun me now for wanting headphones for mixing... but i'm gonna be in a dorm room and i can't afford to piss my entire floor off with loud monitors!
i'm looking at audiophile quality stuff, but i understand the importance of having a truly flat response from the cans (or monitors for that matter).
i've always been amazed by bose stuff but i understand that their headphones wouldn't make great mixing phones.
anybody ever looked at Grado stuff? they're god awful ugly but i guess they sound good!
if i'm doing mixing, do i want open or closed headphones? it seems that all the audiophile stuff is wide open. i don't really plan on doing any tracking with these phones... just critical listening and mixing.
price really isn't a factor here... so as long as it's under 500 bucks, i'm willing to talk about it

[ssscientist]

I strongly recommend these. I have a pair and find them comfortable and accurate down to 50hz. One caution - mine are the older model of the 650s and they suffer from poor construction. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy them again, because I would...

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by vanishbox3

i'm a newbie here and i've searched for threads on headphones already... but i just didn't find anything that totally answered my question.
you can all shun me now for wanting headphones for mixing... but i'm gonna be in a dorm room and i can't afford to piss my entire floor off with loud monitors!
i'm looking at audiophile quality stuff, but i understand the importance of having a truly flat response from the cans (or monitors for that matter).
i've always been amazed by bose stuff but i understand that their headphones wouldn't make great mixing phones.
anybody ever looked at Grado stuff? they're god awful ugly but i guess they sound good!
if i'm doing mixing, do i want open or closed headphones? it seems that all the audiophile stuff is wide open. i don't really plan on doing any tracking with these phones... just critical listening and mixing.
price really isn't a factor here... so as long as it's under 500 bucks, i'm willing to talk about it

In general, you really shouldn't be mixing at a volume that's loud enough to piss off your neighbors anyway. You don't need to mix loudly. Normal CD-player-listening volume is fine. People want to mix loudly because it sounds nice, but in truth you'll get a very accurate response listening at a normal volume as well. Volume is all relative anyway. There's really no "loud" or "quiet" ... there's only "louder" or "quieter."

Now if you're needing to do some mixing while your roommate (if you have one) is asleep, then yeah you'll need cans. Other than that, though, it should be fine. I mixed stuff in my dorm room on monitors for two years and never had a problem with it.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Mandrake:

Since you have a FAT budget for cans, check out the Beyer cans. Either 250 or 770s very nice sound.

You mentioned "closed" or "open" cans. I don't believe it makes much difference if you're just mixing. However, if you were recording and doing vocals, then closed would help keep incoming music from bleeding while doing a vocal.

The Beyer cans I mentioned are closed cans. Very comfortable and they come with a two-way input plug, 1/4 inch or RCA.

It's a hot day in Michigan and that's what summer is all about.

Enjoy,
Green Hornet

[maestro_dmc]

I'll just go ahead and post what everyone is waiting for.

You shouldn't mix on headphones.

Every time I've tried to do it, the mix just doesn't translate.

Sorry it took so long.

[giraffe]

i believe that open cans are generally seen as being more true (perticularly in the bass) than closed ones


but it depends more on the phones.

[Lanny Cox]

I'd accept the cold, hard truth, spend a few bucks on a set of MoreMe's or Extreme Isolation headphones for tracking, and save the rest for a decent set of monitors.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Maestro & DM et. al:

We ALL know that mixing with cans is not the way to go; however there are some who go that way, and where it leads? Who gnus?

But, since that has been reiterated and lixiviated so many times, I don't mention it anymore.

Have a nice hot summer, as we are in Michigan.

Green Hornet

[jeffree]

Yeah, I can understand the dorm thing, and in that situation a phone mix might be your only choice. As others write, it ain't easy to do, though. I did it for a year before buying monitors and wasted many hours trying to adapt my phone mixes to other speakers. But if it's the only choice, and if it's not a pro-level recording sought, then you'll get by with some practice and still have some fun.

But why not a small pair of desktop monitors, too? Many of us prefer to mix at low volumes anyway (ear fatigue), so at least you could use the monitors occasionally (e.g., while others are at class!). Having some speakers to compare the phones to probably would help a lot in raising the quality of your mixes.

That said, I often hear and read that the Sennheiser 580, 600, and 650 are great 'open' models. Just do a search for reviews online--you'll find some easily. The Senn 280s, which I use, are a good choice for 'closed' cans although I doubt they sound as good as the more expensive open ones. Remember, though, that the open cans will leak some sound for your roommates to enjoy, too.

Good luck,
J.

(Hornet, I hope you're up in the northern lake area of Michigan--wonderful place to be in the summer.)

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Yo Jeffrey:]

Up in Northern Michigan, like T. Bay and colder areas, ARE having a heat wave. They were experiencing 90+ temperatures the past three days.

I'm in the middle--Grand Rapids. We are having some hot days with limited rain, even though it POURED for a hour or some this AM according to our golf director.

But, it is still great weather and I'm on the golf course four days a week. Poor studio is collecting dust these days. But, I'll get back to it as I just got the Boss 880 drum box and am anxious to hear the patches.

Hope you are having a great summer too. Is your studio getting dusty?

Green Hornet

[punkin]

I mostly use headphone for two things...performers to monitor themselves and critical listening. For both, I've found that headphones with some isolation works best. I prefer to use closed back headphones.

[fernandoesmaron]

Originally Posted by ssscientist

I strongly recommend these. I have a pair and find them comfortable and accurate down to 50hz. One caution - mine are the older model of the 650s and they suffer from poor construction. That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy them again, because I would...

yes. ultrasone is my favorite now too. want to buy HFI-2200 ULE ( open ) but would get PROline 750 ( closed ) or PROline 2500 ( open ) if i had enough money for them.

http://www.ultrasone.com/htdocs/08_f...line_index.php

[jeffree]

Good for you, Hornet. We all need a break once in a while. I'm actually a Birminghan boy, not living in California and Europe (on occasion), but I spent my summers on MI lakes near Alpena, Traverse City, Mackinac Island, and in the UP and Canada. I consider the northern parts of MI to be generally unknown gems in this country, especially in the summer and fall. Few folks I've met through the years have any idea of how beautiful it is up there, and I usually keep the secret to myself. Lucky you.

My studio's getting some attention, but not enough actually. I'm a bit stuck on writing a new piece at the moment. My solo stuff tends to be busy and complicated, in the prog-jazz-rock vein, and I've been trying to push myself into some simpler pieces. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time retraining myself during this process and feel like I've been losing some time lately. But I'll survive, part of the learning process.

Hey, I'm glad to hear of your Boss 880 purchase. That machine is tops, from all I hear. From what I've read, it even takes two pedals if you want to record real-time. Do give us a quick review sometime if you get the chance, eh?

Happy MI summer to you and yours,

J.

(By the way, my best bud in high school started a pretty good band with me. He's since gotten a solid name for himself in the MI music scene--Bugs Beddow. We've recorded together since, and I always enjoy hearing his t-bone and flute playing. If you ever get the chance, do check him out--I know his group tours MI a lot.)

[maestro_dmc]

Originally Posted by The Green Hornet

Yo Maestro & DM et. al:


But, since that has been reiterated and lixiviated so many times, I don't mention it anymore.

Have a nice hot summer, as we are in Michigan.

Green Hornet

Yeah, I know, I know. But there are things here all day every day that we ALL know, somebody new may not know, and if I don't say it someone will so, you know. . .

Nice word the BTW . Lixiviated. Hmmm

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Maestro & initials too:

Yeah, I'm showing off my English composition teaching. I love to give the "kids" [college level] a new big fat word every class--it does wonders to use them when you write to the president of a company if you have a gear gripe.

I did that one to a MAJOR vendor in my area; the PRESIDENT called me in two days and took care of the problem in less than 2 minutes. I like that kind of treatment. All of this happened because I used 2 megaton words to blast the sales rep that gave me grief. You got to love it.

Yo Jeffrey--I'll keep an eye open for your friend and band. Also, I have a great contact for some jazz help for any small problem you have. I'm doing a session with him, my gal singer, and the Jazz Musician of the Year in Grand Rapids, Elgin Vines, one week from today. Will send you a CD of the session if you want. BTW: Elgin plays the best BASS in this world.

Green Hornet