Encouragement

[Sonic Idiot]

Anyone equiped with at least a PIII computer, a $99 EMU sound card, a $99 SP B1, a $175 RNC compressor and a $59 Art Pre can record music that ranks in listenability amongts the "greatest" recordings ever made.

Home Recording Idiots Unite! The New World of Audio belongs to us.

[Sonic Idiot]

Now, about Mics. I can't say enough about the B1. I've used it again and again against a bevy of other mics in its relative range ($0-200, say) and I will again encourage you all to buy one.

[wesley tanner]

dude.



and anyone who's not quadrapalegic can run a marathon.

and anyone with a freezer, some water and a knife can ice sculpt.

and anyone with a dictionary can write beautiful poetry in iambic pentameter.





frankly, mr. shankly, you're a flatulent pain in the ass(just quoting a smiths song, don't get huffy)

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

Anyone equiped with at least a PIII computer, a $99 EMU sound card, a $99 SP B1, a $175 RNC compressor and a $59 Art Pre can record music that ranks in listenability amongts the "greatest" recordings ever made.
Home Recording Idiots Unite! The New World of Audio belongs to us.

That's not as entirely ludicrous as it sounds, depending on how you define "greatest recordings ever made". From the AE's standpoint, this is a joke, but from the listeners perspective it's not the noise floor, or the THD, or any of that crap...it's the performance, and how the emotion was captured and re-conveyed. That doesn't necessarily take great equipment, and has more to do with great producing. Of course, great equipment doesn't hurt.

RD

[maestro_dmc]

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

Anyone equiped with at least a PIII computer, a $99 EMU sound card, a $99 SP B1, a $175 RNC compressor and a $59 Art Pre can record music that ranks in listenability amongts the "greatest" recordings ever made.

Home Recording Idiots Unite! The New World of Audio belongs to us.

So I guess I'm ahead of the curve with my P4, Delta 1010, 2 Oktava MK-319's, Sonar, and Tascam 2516 mixer, eh?

I'm glad to know that all my recordings are so listenable. I wish I hadn't wasted all that time learning how to use my equipment properly, and how to get good sounds out of it. All that time down the tubes learning proper mic placement. Dang!

Oops, I guess I'm really not there yet, I forgot, I don't have the SP B1.

[chessrock]

I think an Electrovoice RE-15 and a couple MC-012's could do some serious damage if used the right way.

[gemsbok]

i would change the b-1 though. i owned 2 and moved away. for me too slightly whistley metalic for multipurpose. now a 57 or a at20/20 might be better .

[Sonic Idiot]

I didn't say you don't need skill. The capability of the setup I mention would have cost $50,000 15 years ago, that's all. (and this goes for mics. Man, there are TONS of great ones about that are cheap.) You can acieve commercial grade sound with a simple home setup.

Listen, if you can't accept that recording equipment has been completely--COM-Pletely--revolutionized in the last 10 years, you're blind (and perhaps deaf). The sound from that get-up I mentioned (replace each part with your favorite cheap piece of gear) is Clean and Quiet.

Pure enough that once you mix and use your plugins (many great free ones out there, mind you) and your ears, of course, and your know how, etc., the results can be smashing--and more than "listenable". The results can be downright stirring in the right hands. It's a different world. And remember, this is Homerecording.org, not bigstudiosnob.org. If you sell water in the desert, and it starts to rain, you might want to find a new business.

(I don't want to fight about this with big studio guys, btw, I have gear envy like everyone else. I'm not trying to start a flamer here. I'm just trying to encourage those who too often imagine they can't achieve a great sound with their meager set up. They can.)

There was a time when us homeboys had nothing but really crap to work with--cassette tapes, for instance. No longer. We don't need the studio to create. We can do it at home just fine. So I say words of encouragement. We have the tools we need.

[Sonic Idiot]

Oh yeah, and about the B1--different strokes. I think it's a wonderful mic for acoustic guitar--just wonderful. There are a number of very good mics in its $$ range, though--mics that are new to the field. Really exciting, I think...nice time to be interested in this stuff. Great results to be had.

[sweetnubs]

it's funny. My business was down for quite a while especially during the initial explostion of the home-recording fad. Now it's back up again, most of my clients have told me they gave home recording a shot and I realized the time and money they spent would have been better spent at a proper studio. You can buy all the equipment you want but experience don't come for free. My u67 does kick your b1's ass by the way. Yes I've heard both.

[acorec]

Originally Posted by sweetnubs

it's funny. My business was down for quite a while especially during the initial explostion of the home-recording fad. Now it's back up again, most of my clients have told me they gave home recording a shot and I realized the time and money they spent would have been better spent at a proper studio. You can buy all the equipment you want but experience don't come for free. My u67 does kick your b1's ass by the way. Yes I've heard both.

A U67 beats a B1? I don't believe that for a second.

[Big Kenny]

Chess is right about the mics (an RE20 IS better) but aside from that, I hear alot of yadda yadda yadda

[Warhead]

Some encouragement from Columbia SC. - War

http://www.taxi.com/transmitter/0505/headlineA0505.html

I understand that you recorded your album in your own home studio. How great was that? Can you give us an idea of what your setup is like?

Very modest. It's just in an old garage that was made into a brick studio, with a fast computer with a version of Cakewalk that we found on the Internet, an AKG microphone running into a guitar compressor—we didn't have enough money to buy a vocal compressor. For the vocals and the guitars, I used a Pod and a Veta... and a bass Pod for the bass. I also had a Triton Studio keyboard. And that's about it.

Either you or somebody in the band is quoted as saying "None of us are really studio engineers. We're just a band with some cool equipment." What can you say to all the artists and songwriters who feel like they have to have a super-produced demo in order to get anywhere?

I would say that I think as long as the heart is there in the songs, and as long as it's not completely crappy recording, I think it will always come across to people. I think it's all about what's in the song and not what makes the song. So, if your heart's in it and it's at least a mediocre recording, I think that anybody who knows good music will hear that in the song.

But essentially the label let you produce your own album after they heard your demo?

No. The demo that we recorded, produced, and released independently is the same record they picked up. They had the tracks remixed by Randy Staub (Nickelback, P.O.D., Metallica). So that was actually our demo that we were shopping. We were hoping to re-record it with a producer and all that, but they decided to use it as it was.

So there is something to be said for doing it in your own time, in your own space, and that it can still get picked up and do so well. Great.

[tryptophan]

"are there any nickelback fans in portugal?!?!?!"

....i dunno about the b1 for acoustic guitar. i tried it and didn't like. then again i was immediately chastized by the big boys, so maybe my opinion's wrong!

[Sonic Idiot]

"My business was down for quite a while especially during the initial explostion of the home-recording fad."

It's not a fad.


"Now it's back up again, most of my clients have told me they gave home recording a shot and I realized the time and money they spent would have been better spent at a proper studio."

I don't hope you go out of business. I'm happy you're doing well and I'm certain you offer your clients something of real value.

"You can buy all the equipment you want but experience don't come for free."

Truth. It only comes with access to gear that is capable of making great results. Such gear is suddenly widely available AND affordable. I wouldn't have the skills I have without it.

"My u67 does kick your b1's ass by the way. Yes I've heard both."

Good for you, I'm glad you can afford a fancy mic. I'm always schemeing to buy more expensive gear. But you're a bit wrong: It doesn't "kick its ass." It may be much better in certain applications, but in others the B1 will beat it out (or any number of other affordable mics). Regardless, the B1 (etc.) wins hands down in the cost vs. performance ratio battle. It's price puts it well within reach of every starving artist like myself AND every punk kid who wants to learn how to record using equipment that can yeild wonderful results if learned how to be properly manipulated.

I would not benefit from your studio because I write songs and build recordings slowly (and mostly alone) and through much trial, error and experimenting. I could not afford to do this in your studio. When I started writing songs about 12 years ago, I had no way to do what I'm doing now. I yearned for a machine that would yeild me great results. (I can't believe I just used the word "yearn") Today, I've got a handful of good mid level equipment I've built up over about 5 years that yeilds me results I respect and am proud to share with others (and sell. I sell my handmade records.) It's a beautiful time for the true home recordist.

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by sweetnubs

it's funny. My business was down for quite a while especially during the initial explostion of the home-recording fad. Now it's back up again, most of my clients have told me they gave home recording a shot and I realized the time and money they spent would have been better spent at a proper studio. You can buy all the equipment you want but experience don't come for free. My u67 does kick your b1's ass by the way. Yes I've heard both.

I think this was an inevitable and predictable curve. It's obvious to most anyone that a great set of paints, brushes, and a nice easel won't suddenly make you able to paint, but that wasn't so obvious with recording. In my own case, I'm supprised at how long it's taken to get where I am on the curve, but I love it too much to be sensible and go back to the pro studio. I'm glad though that water sales are back up in the desert.

-RD

[smtcharlie]

I still think that all this new home recording gear can be synergistic with proper studios, and actually help proper studios.

10 years ago, mic's and multi-track recorders were expensive enough that I didn't even consider thinking about getting them. So I think that studios got more "we're making a demo" kind of business. It is now possible to make inspiring recordings at home, so musicians are free to explore songs at home and make their own demos. That is very exciting, but isn't necessarily bad for proper studios.

10 years ago, it was also hard to make a demo of a band that just gave you an accurate picture of how a song sounds. At least in my case, we would consider doing a demo in a studio without really exploring songs before-hand in a recording environment - there was just no easy way to do that. A crappy recording on a regular cassette makes a good song sound crappy every time.

Although I am inspired by my home recordings (that's all I'm really after) and am happy with them, I wouldn't make the statement that my stuff wouldn't benefit from a proper studio. That's just not true. I listen to Wilco's Ghost album recorded at Sear Sound, or Daniel Lanois Shine, and that sound is super-inspiring.

It would be great if all this home recording gear raised the level of studio projects for the average band. Rather than going into a studio with little idea of how a song sounds, and getting shaky results - bands can use home recording gear to really explore a song and do pre-production, then go into a proper studio with much more focus, and make much better recordings.

All this home recording gear has also helped lots of people start recording who otherwise wouldn't. Proper students should start to see business from people that just want to take a day to record drums in a great room, etc. This is a new a new market for proper studios.

I think that the big problem right now is the fad of compressing major label records to the point of distortion. The benefit of havng a great room, and great recording equipment, I think, is much less if you are just going to compress the crap out of everything at the end. Anyone can start with home-recorded garbage and then compress the crap out of it to get compressed garbage that has no depth.

And I know that this is unfair, but I link proper studios to this. I see less value in a proper studio when I hear all these compressed, crappy sounding (and very expensive) recordings.

And, from a studio's perspective, I hope that this price war with recording equipment gives you more money for room treatment, or awesome instruments to have on hand, or a better space. There should be no need to lower prices in the long run, there are plenty of things that home recorders don't have and would be willing to pay for.

So, what I am really saying, I guess, is that I encourage all studios to put a stop to this compression war somehow.

There are more people recording now than ever. You have more "leads" than ever. Show everyone how great your stuff can sound. Give us a "buying vision."

Ideally, we (home recorders) will all have songs at some point that we think are great, and the recording is fairly good. Show us how you can make that great song *sound* great as well.

Okay, maybe I've gone off the deep end here....

[daav]

What about how the home recording gear options affect the near indentured servitude of musicians to labels? Or musicians to other musicians foir that matter (for instance check out Andrew Bird, a guy who after creating his own studio out of a barn (granted i am sure his has much more expensive gear than the stuff mentioned to start this thread) intending to bring his current band in and found that he liked the control so much he record his next two albums almost singlehandedly?

Because they now have the ability to create and even distribute (via a webpage, self burned and labeled CDs, or what have you) a viable musical product to an audience, many musicians are now able to make a living independantly of the money machine industry itself. Alternately, the only way many people could get into a studio was via the label's $$, so although there may be varying degrees of quality between a home recorder's product and an excellent studio's, they are at least in the same ballpark, and to mix metaphors, Daavid is now able to get within range of Goliath, wheras 10 years ago, it might have been about as useful to try to knock down a brick wall with his skull.

I think the home recording "revolution" combined with the ability to move music around independant of manufatured-by-goliath-companies choosen form of media has (or at least can) substantially change the way people make and listen to music-- and shift things from the trickle down ecomonics of huge record company makes 90% of proceeds at a cost of cents per CD while the talent (musician or AE, what have you) gets an infintessimally small percentage of the dollars that people are willing to spend for that talent.

I say it is well time for a shift in how things are done. There will always be a small percentage of people out there with the true drive and ability to be excellent AEs-- it does take more than gear to produce that talent, but perhaps accesibilty to high quality gear at more reachable prices will open the doors to more of theose people doing so rather than beating their skulls against brick walls of an industry that would rather use their talents than reward them.

Whew, got on a rant there,

Daav

[Sonic Idiot]

Originally Posted by wesley tanner

dude.



and anyone who's not quadrapalegic can run a marathon.

and anyone with a freezer, some water and a knife can ice sculpt.

and anyone with a dictionary can write beautiful poetry in iambic pentameter.





frankly, mr. shankly, you're a flatulent pain in the ass(just quoting a smiths song, don't get huffy)

I won't get huffy, but I I disagree with you entirely. For instance, sure, not everyone with a dictionary can be a poet. But, say, if a dictionary is required to be a poet, a sudden influx in the number of affordable dictionaries that contain the same definitions as heretofor expensive ones will be an absolute blessing to would-be poets who were too poor to buy fancy dictionaries. (Expensive dictionary salesmen will insist, however, that there's no way the chinese are capable of printing books in English! The Chinese must be too stupid to manufacture high quality goods...)

I don't wish anyone harm, but I'm so happy to have my humble setup. (I don't have the setup I wrote about at the beginning, but I used to until this year. Athlon 3200, Win2K, Layla3G, RNP, RNC, B1, TB1, TLM-103, MK-319, SM57 & 58, Some Marshall Mic that I don't care for, AT Stereo Mic, Art MP...hmmmm....I've got one other pretty nice SD Condenser...an old one I got for free that is great...anyhoo)

I've used this setup extensively and to me the weakest link in the chain at this point is EASILY whatever is sitting in front of the mic. This gear is great--.

[mr. produca]

word!!!! well put!

[darnold]

Me and a buddy actually did a mic shootout for fun last week.

Simple simple and not scientific tests but it was still fun.

We put up

Soundelux U195 (ive got one of these on its way yahoo)
Neumann TLM193
Audiotechnica AT4050
AKG C414 EB
Studio Projects B3
Shure SM7

I could post up the results. The reason why im mentioning this is because i was actually quite surprised at how well the B3 sounded. Definately more harsh in the mid range but it was surprisingly tight. However it still had the cheapest sound of the bunch but it was still surprising. Pretty good microphone for the money. Ive got two that just kind of sit as an extra mic in the studio.

Danny

[OneRoomStudios]

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

Anyone equiped with at least a PIII computer, a $99 EMU sound card, a $99 SP B1, a $175 RNC compressor and a $59 Art Pre can record music that ranks in listenability amongts the "greatest" recordings ever made.

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

I don't have the setup I wrote about at the beginning, but I used to until this year. Athlon 3200, Win2K, Layla3G, RNP, RNC, B1, TB1, TLM-103, MK-319, SM57 & 58, Some Marshall Mic that I don't care for, AT Stereo Mic, Art MP...hmmmm....I've got one other pretty nice SD Condenser...an old one I got for free that is great...anyhoo

This begs the question.....

If your original equipment was good enough to produce "music that ranks in listenability amongst the "greatest" recordings ever made," then why did you upgrade?

I agree with you that we presently have access to more equipment and at lower prices than ever before, but I can't agree with you that the equipment you listed is sufficient for a professional quality recording. If it was a lot of high-end audio equipment companies would be going out of business. I'm not saying that the gear you listed is bad - a B1 is probably one of the best mics a home-recordist can buy, but it isn't a miracle worker. Professional recording require professional equipment, and more importantly - professionals to operate it all.

-Peter

[Sonic Idiot]

It's all about what you consider "professional". What piece of gear do I need to buy to get into that club? Or what skill do I need before I can call myself "professional"? We all know that you can have a fancy studio, great gear, and still totally suck at making good recordings. This isn't eye surgery: this is art. I believe I'm a professional regardless of my gear. In fact, if you want to be a recording engineer or producer, well, just say the word and there you are. The best advice you could give anyone seeking a career as a recordist is to say, "just start considering yourself one."

There is a reason there isn't a significant professional recording association like the American Medical Association that requires rigorous educational, licensing, conduct and ongoing review in order to be a member. Recording is mostly trial and error and patience and love for the game. It's art! It's not a club. And with technology being what it is today, that club has gotten much bigger, and that's a great thing for artists.

As for my upgrade, I'm pretty much done and I'm drawing the line about where I'm at. (yeah, right.) Of course, I'm sick in the head and I like the gear just because I love this stuff, like so many of you on the forum. I'm a sucker. I'm an addict. But my first setup was great, and I made many recordings with it I'm very proud of, and I sold those recordings independently and used them to get gigs and used that humble setup to record other artists, who were most pleased with the results. (The sound produced by that setup didn't sound like Abbey Road, of course. But it has it's own sound--well tempered and unique and very listenable. That setup, if you care to spend lots of time using it and experimenting, will lend you beautiful results--results, because of the room and your own sensibilities, that have a sonic character all their own).

I say all this to encourage those starting out. You have to start somewhere. Thankfuly the starting point for gear these days is NOT THAT FAR OFF from the ending point, which apparently is pro, whatever that is. And I like the point made about compressing the shit out of records these days. Throws all the advantage of a big studio right down the toilet.

Now, also, I'm not trying to dis studio owners. Again, studios are great. Why did I upgrade? I wish I had a studio! (That is, a dedicated space for just recording music. My studio is currently outside of the kitchen. I have forgotten to turn the fridge back on one too many times.) Maybe I will someday. But I simply can not afford one right now, nor do I own a house I can rip apart. In the mean time, I'll continue making recordings that stand up to great scrutiny.

[ch2os7]

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

...to me the weakest link in the chain at this point is EASILY whatever is sitting in front of the mic. This gear is great--.

I read each position with great interest. I think Sonic's premise is very sound. It is possible today to achieve recordings that are very listenable with equipment that is very affordable. This is something that was not possible just a few years ago.
Realistically I know the "proper studio" is going to have a more professional and polished sound. Experience and know-how along with high end gear will make a difference. (at least it should)
Not every home recording enthusiast will achieve the level of quality that Sonic does but the potential is there (even with modest priced gear) if you work at learning how to use the equipment, place the mics, etc. However I agree , "the weakest link in the chain is whatever is in front of the mic."

[OneRoomStudios]

Originally Posted by Sonic Idiot

It's all about what you consider "professional". What piece of gear do I need to buy to get into that club? Or what skill do I need before I can call myself "professional"? We all know that you can have a fancy studio, great gear, and still totally suck at making good recordings. This isn't eye surgery: this is art. I believe I'm a professional regardless of my gear. In fact, if you want to be a recording engineer or producer, well, just say the word and there you are. The best advice you could give anyone seeking a career as a recordist is to say, "just start considering yourself one."

There is a reason there isn't a significant professional recording association like the American Medical Association that requires rigorous educational, licensing, conduct and ongoing review in order to be a member. Recording is mostly trial and error and patience and love for the game. It's art! It's not a club. And with technology being what it is today, that club has gotten much bigger, and that's a great thing for artists.

Now that, I take issue with. Are you telling all of the engineers and producers out there who spent years in school or interning in studios so they could learn the skills they need to be professional that you have the same skill level? I certainly hope not. It's true, recording is an art. But the last time I checked, even professional artists went to art school or took an apprenticeship. Sure, you can call yourself an engineer or producer all you want, but without the training and experience your just a poseur.

Now, please don't take this the wrong way. I am NOT saying that home recordists or hobby recordists are poseurs or even necessarily "worse" at their craft than professionals. All I'm saying is that home recordists are by definition amateur. This is not meant as a jab at amateurs, I just wanted to point out that calling yourself something does not mean that you are that something. There are many actual professionals out there who have dedicated huge lengths of their lives to recording, and to surreptitiously give yourself the same title deprives them of all the respect they deserve.

Peter