What determines volume level on CD??

[downonthestreet]

I'm compiling a CD of old 77/78 punk songs I re-recorded over a decade ago, then using a Tascam 4track. Most of them didn't have bass recorded, so I've added bass now using Cool Edit Pro, and am currently in the process of mixing down and burning to CD.

I can't figure out WHY I get some songs down to CD sounding nice and loud and clear and gutsy, while a few others just won't cut it, regardless of my duplicating the processing that is successful with other songs. All the songs are simple full-on wall-of-guitar punk rock, and all were recorded at the same volume level originally. Most were compressed when originally recorded, using an Alesis 3630, so those I am not re-compressing in CEP. The songs that were not compressed originally, I have been compressing in CEP.

Is there a general principle I'm missing, perhaps? Can anyone say, in general terms, what needs to be done to get a song sounding as loud as the others, and thumping out? Exactly what determines the final volume of a song on the CD you burn to?

Note: I've been using Noise Reduction and Normalising prior to the final mixdown in all cases, yet still there is inconsistency in the CD vol levels and quality of sound of the songs. What I don't get is that I would have thought that the final act of normalising would ensure the CD volume levels of all songs thus treated would be the same. They ain't!

Something I've noticed is that in the case of some of the songs that haven't burnt to CD very well, there is a difference in wave height in L and R tracks. The R might be nice and loud, while the L is not as loud. Normalising doesn't make an appreciable difference, unless I deselect the loud track and normalise only the quieter one. I have a feeling this is counterproductive, as the discrepancy in wave heights between L and R tracks is probably due to panned bass, yeah? (Seems that when the bass is panned L, the L track wave is higher; when panned right, the R is higher).

Also, with some songs, I have mixed them down so loud that their waves are square-topped and the vol indicator is stuck in the red - yet these seem to sound good and gutsy on CD. Maybe I just can't recognise clipping when I hear it??!

Anyway, already too much info...would be grateful for the thoughts of those many folk who understand this HD recording process far better than I.

[ukejammin]

Are you in AA 1.5 or CEP?

I do know in AA you can use the normalize tracks in cd window. you can have it analyze and give a consistent volume to all your tracks. I guess it does hard limit where needed. I used it for the first time and was happy with the sound.

hope that helps

[treymonfauntre]

this is very confusing. try to get everything as pristine as possible and don't worry about loudness. you can make something thats not clipping louder, but once you've clipped you're never going back

[downonthestreet]

ukejammin,

I'm in CEP, but thanks for that info. Will bear it in mind.


treymonfauntre,

Re your comment: "you can make something thats not clipping louder, but once you've clipped you're never going back" - so, how do I make the original recording louder yet keep the bass I've recently added pumping through the mix? Or do I have to sacrifice some of the bass to have the higher frequencies upfront? Most interested in your views.

[Change of POETS]

This discussion doesn't really have anything to do with CEP or AA. It's a mixing/mastering issue.

Get a solid mix, and throw the compiled track into Hard Limiting in CEP or a stand alone Limiter. Max out the volume, and don't clip it.... Just be sure to leave enough headroom in the mix before hard limiting.

[downonthestreet]

Thx, Change of POETS. Will try that.

Just a general query about what you've said - what's the basic difference between hard limiting and any other sort of compression? Why do you advise on using hard limiting specifically for the sort of music I'm mastering?

[Change of POETS]

Well, don't get it confused, Hard Limiting is NOT mastering. It's merely a compression method to maximize volume output. Mastering is a completely different beast, which I'm not sure you'd be able to handle at this point. From the sounds of it, your fairly new to the recording world. No offense intended, we all take our steps in the learning game.

As for the difference in Hard Limiting and other compression methods... Well, it's hard to say. Hard Limiting applies some compression in it's process, but not nearly as much as say, a tube compressor etc... It uses compression as an element, not as the entire process. Hope that makes sense.

[downonthestreet]

Change of POETS,

Actually, I've been recording on 4track analogue for a lot of years! You're right about my lack of savvy with HD recording, though. And my analogue recording was, it has to be said, simple and unsophisticated. I was always able to get a nice mix, added a touch of reverb here and there using an Alesis Midiverb, finished off with basic compression using the infamous Alesis 3630, and mixed down to video mastertape. O what a simple world it was, and the end results were pretty good, considering...

Anyway, thanks for your comments on hard limiting. Maybe for the full-on relentlessly thrashy nature of the songs I'm working on at the moment, I can get the energetic up-front CD sound I want with some simple hard limiting. Can only try and see what happens.

[treymonfauntre]

to get it louder while mixing turn up the volume on your speakers. seriously. the day i started mixing with most things peaking below -6db (digital) was quite a day. once you've got the mix soudning good you mix it down to 2 tracks and can play with "mastering" stuff like eq and limiters to get it louder. but honestly you probably won't be happy with a loud mix. i know once i got seriously into recording i started hearing loudly mastered cds and getting so frustrated at how good it probably sounded before they maxed the hell out of everything. and thats why i collect vinyl now