Big amps - Why?

[noisedude]

A friend wanted to borrow an amp from me for a big gig tonight. He had a choice between two budget combos - my 1x12 100W Fender combo and my Vox AD15VT. Since buying the Vox I haven't used the Fender once, either live or for recording. The models are pretty damn good, and I can crank the amp on stage to get the best sound to the close mic without ever screwing up the monitoring levels or disrupting the front of house.

So my question is - why are people still using big, heavy stacks and half-stacks? I just don't seem to have any setting in which one would be useful.

Nik

[guitarboi89]

to compensate for something else ?

erm i suppose if its a certain sized venue where you dont have a pa but a 50w combo wont do??????

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by guitarboi89

erm i suppose if its a certain sized venue where you dont have a pa but a 50w combo wont do??????

Madison Square Garden?

[Garry Sharp]

Don't forget the visual impact. A rock or a metal band has to have those cabs stacked up - even if they are empty

[reshp1]

On stage, you can get away with a small combo, but practicing in a cramped space with a heavy handed drummer is a different story. 40W is pretty much minimum in my experience. I guess it depends heavily on the type of music too.

[kid klash]

Originally Posted by Garry Sharp

Don't forget the visual impact. A rock or a metal band has to have those cabs stacked up - even if they are empty

You hit the nail on the head! The only reason I still schlep my Marshall half stack is for visual impact. My Roland Blues Cube 60 and Cube 30 sound almost as good, but they have less than zero visual impact. Most spectators won't take a band or individual musician seriously unless they see the big stuff in the backline. Sad but true.

[metalhead28]

so you can do this.....
(see below)

[metalhead28]

^^^doesn't work without the stacks...

[Radiohead0709]

The big amps look sexy!!!!

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Garry Sharp

Don't forget the visual impact. A rock or a metal band has to have those cabs stacked up - even if they are empty

I worked the stage for a Metallica show quite a few years back. When I saw that semi trailer full of Marshall cabs, I feared for my back and for my ears, but when I went to lift the first one I almost hit myself in the face with it; It was an empty mockup. Out of 27 cabs, only three were real.

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by ggunn

It was an empty mockup. Out of 27 cabs, only three were real.

Van Halen does this, too.

[noisedude]

Went to the gig where my amp was being borrowed ... I don't get it. Why blast the guitar out of a 1x12 amp when you can turn it down and let the engineer blast it out of an 8-way FOH system?!

If I say I'm never going to buy a big amp again, will I sound stoopid?

[IronFlippy]

If you have everything going through the PA, a lot of bad engineers won't know how to adjust anything to make it not sound like mud. This happens quite frequently at EVERY venue around here.

Slightly off topic, but is it just me, or does anyone else hate going to shows with heavy rock bands? There's so much noise that you can't really hear the song. What's the point of seeing your favorite bands if you can't hear a damn thing they're playing?

[treymonfauntre]

since i don't go to shitty arena rock shows, i can say that despite going to hundreds of shows i've only been to a handful in my entire life that had the drums micced up, much less the guitar amps. not every band plays on a stage in front of thousands of people.

[treymonfauntre]

Originally Posted by IronFlippy

What's the point of seeing your favorite bands if you can't hear a damn thing they're playing?

you honestly sound like an old lady. if the band sounds like crap live then they sound like crap on cd.. you just don't realize it until after seeing them suck live.

[FALKEN]

almost every small venue in my town mics the drums and I would have to say that every one of them sounds like shit on a regular basis. some shittier than others, of course. at one of the largest venues here in town, the sound guy mixes with earplugs in, so all you hear is high end, blasted up twice as high as humanly necessary. it is god awful. I have always played shows with 2 x 12 tube combos and those seem to work for me. I dont see any reason to get a stack other than for touring so that you can keep the head from getting beat up as badly as the cab.

[treymonfauntre]

not every show is at a "venue".. bookstores and basements, my friend.

[lpdeluxe]

Who hasn't seen a guy, at a club that seats 100 people, playing through a Marshall stack? It's all about styling, and nothing about music. I have been to many places in my long life where it was painful to sit 20 yards from the stage due to the unnecessary loudness. I'm not advocating quiet acoustic music, you understand, but it is unusual to go to a club and have the waiter or waitress take your order without lip-reading.

I myself have played with guys with whom I went so far as to carry an SPL meter to rehearsals: "Look, 130 dB is TOO LOUD!" One local bass player is notorious for turning everything up to 10 for "headroom." We played a coffee house once (40 people, max) with a singer-guitarist (I was playing my Les Paul, for what it's worth) and after the gig a tipsy blond came over and kissed me on the lips and whispered in my ear "why is the bass player so g-d LOUD?" "I wish I knew, honey."

There is exactly ONE band around here where the leader makes sure there is a limit on the sound level, and his band plays pumpin' rock. Nobody EVER tells him to "turn it up" because, while it's loud, it's not LOUD, and you can even distinguish words in the lyrics and tell what the drummer's doing! Wow. What a concept.

Has ANYONE, EVER, ANYWHERE, asked a guitar player to TURN IT UP?

[treymonfauntre]

yes. i've been asked to turn it up, too.

[mixmkr]

I will tell you why the big amps. It is because of the sound and the air that the speakers move. No..it doesn't have to be 120dB, but a 4x12 cabinet at 105dB sounds to ME much better than a little combo. And I say 105dB is just fine.

I used to play in a band that played a lot of 500 seat clubs, high school proms, stuff like that. We NEVER mic'd anything and had a heavy hitting drummer. A half stack, much less a full stack was just fine in those places. It wasn't about ego, etc. But try to fill up a gymnasium with a Roland 60 cube and you see what I mean.

At smaller clubs, we just always turned our amps around or just took half stacks.

Playing Led Zep covers with a Peavey Classic 30 just doesn't cut it.

I also believe that a 50 watt amp is about min with a LOUD drummer.


NOW>>
if you have a GREAT engineer, a GREAT monitor mix, I will CONSIDER a small amp.
At my church, I run three amps...all about 30 watts each, except for a 130 Peavey that handles the guitar synth. I turn the amps off to the side, and where I stand, the mix and sound and volume level is PERFECT for me. Unfortunately, church soundmen usually aren't the best, and I know the FOH suffers for it. However, I only play for God in that instance, and leave the FOH sound ENTIRELY up to the soundcrew to do what they think is best for the congregation. I definately do what is best for the praise team as a whole and am eager to work with my sound for whatever is needed.

[castlerock]

Originally Posted by mixmkr

I will tell you why the big amps. It is because of the sound and the air that the speakers move. No..it doesn't have to be 120dB, but a 4x12 cabinet at 105dB sounds to ME much better than a little combo. And I say 105dB is just fine.

Absolutely. I've always played with combos. I've played with people who used combos and people who had stacks and the stacks ALWAYS sounded better.
My Ibanez Tube Screamer plugged into a 100W Marshall Stack is probably the best sound I've ever played with. I've also plugged it into small Marshall combos and it just isn't the same. The stacks just seem to have more resonance and punch.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by mixmkr

I will tell you why the big amps. It is because of the sound and the air that the speakers move. No..it doesn't have to be 120dB, but a 4x12 cabinet at 105dB sounds to ME much better than a little combo. And I say 105dB is just fine.

I used to play in a band that played a lot of 500 seat clubs, high school proms, stuff like that. We NEVER mic'd anything and had a heavy hitting drummer. A half stack, much less a full stack was just fine in those places. It wasn't about ego, etc. But try to fill up a gymnasium with a Roland 60 cube and you see what I mean.

At smaller clubs, we just always turned our amps around or just took half stacks.

Playing Led Zep covers with a Peavey Classic 30 just doesn't cut it.

I also believe that a 50 watt amp is about min with a LOUD drummer.


NOW>>
if you have a GREAT engineer, a GREAT monitor mix, I will CONSIDER a small amp.
At my church, I run three amps...all about 30 watts each, except for a 130 Peavey that handles the guitar synth. I turn the amps off to the side, and where I stand, the mix and sound and volume level is PERFECT for me. Unfortunately, church soundmen usually aren't the best, and I know the FOH suffers for it. However, I only play for God in that instance, and leave the FOH sound ENTIRELY up to the soundcrew to do what they think is best for the congregation. I definately do what is best for the praise team as a whole and am eager to work with my sound for whatever is needed.

I'll go along with this in general. Sometimes it just seems to help to fit the size of the rig to the room. I've had my 2-12 combo come off responding feeling really small on an outdoor stage for example. On the other hand, a too large rig doesn't always scale down very well either. It depends of the tone style too I suppose.
Wayne

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

Because sometimes you want to be louder than God and don't want output tube distortion.

A 4x12 cab just moves a lot more air as well.

[KKM1]

in the 80s i had a jcm 800 marshall half stack and was envious of people with full stacks and i never played in front of more than 300 people. why did i have this setup? because i didnt know better. i saw all my heroes with stacks and thats what i thought i needed.

now, after 20 years my biggest amp is a 30 watt AC30CC 2x12 and i feel thats overkill for most situations. i prefer the deluxe reverb RI for most situations.

i look back at those times in the 80s and can totally relate to all the "kids" these days.

[Wireneck]

Im not talking about ear bleed volumes but there is just something great about being able to "FEEL" what your playing. You just can't get that with a little ankle biter amp. Of course it all depends on what your needs are and what setup is best suited for you.