cockroach highhats

[fantompauer]

hi,
ive recorded drums three different times in a local studio, using eight or nine mikes (nine the last time as a second bass drum mike on the beater) anyhoo my main problem is that the highhats are bleeding into everything, particular the overheads and snare, and as a result my snare and highhat sounds are badly defined in mixes.
also while im at it, the snare drum mike every time ive gone to this studio has sounded mainly of ringy boomy close up drum resonating noise and very little cracking stick impact noise, if you follow
so am i mixing it all wrong or did the guy setting up the microphones get it wrong or is it a bit of both.
any suggestions on snares and highhats welcome
ta

[fantompauer]

crap just saw the other thread, what are the odds, just ignore me and ill go away

[Jeyan]

First of all you didnt mention what mics you are using, that is a big factor because of the pickup patterns. since you said it is a studio I am assuming you have used the right mics. Then it comes down to mic placement. Here is where you ned to spend most of your time to experiment and find the sweet spot, let somebody else play and you go and tweak until you get the sound you desire.
finally the mixing...... even if you screwed up in both mic patterns and placement you can still adjust upto an extent in the mixing. The good thing about the drum is that you can eliminate a whole lot of frequencies in each mic. So start tweaking the eq and you can eliminate bleeds to a level. Use compresor wisely
Also I think, to get a real good sound it is not how many mics you use, but where you place it and how you mix it. With 5-6 mics you can get a better sound than using 9-10 mics and making it muddy.
If you are the drummer, you go and experiment the placement and mix dont let somebody else tell you that this is how it sounds or excuses. Good Lck.

[ecktronic]

More improtantly than any of that, good source=good recording (unless youve never miced a drum kit in your life and dont know the difference between a dynamic and a condensor).
Tune them drums and if you cant get a good sound at source then your feked. You will have to tweak the life out of the tracks to try and get an ok sound,.

[Mark7]

Why is this thread called "Cockroach highhats"? :confused

[xfinsterx]

Originally Posted by Mark7

Why is this thread called "Cockroach highhats"? :confused

Because the hi-hats are creeping in like cockroaches.

Anyways.

If you mash your hihats and play your snare unevenly or hit the snare softly that usually is the culprit to your problem.

Mics record what musicians play.

-Finster

[RAMI]

Originally Posted by fantompauer

hi,
the snare drum mike every time ive gone to this studio has sounded mainly of ringy boomy close up drum resonating noise and very little cracking stick impact noise

A mic doesn't just decide to pick up what isn't already there. Tune your drums...

And while, I'm at it....you're using "8 or 9 mics"????

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by RAMI

And while, I'm at it....you're using "8 or 9 mics"????

Nothing wrong with that Rammi. In my next session I am going to use 12 mics.
3 for the kick and 3 for the snare. (looking forward to a phaseing nightmare!!)

My most basic set up was 6 mics. 2 OHs, 1 for small tom, 1 for medium tom and floor tom and 1 on kick and 1 on snare. Got a really nice sound even from a not soo great drum kit. Just shoes how good tuning can do wonders.

Using a couple of mics can work, but using lots of mics will give way way more possiblity of different sounds at mixing. Worth experimenting with Rami.

[jonnyc]

Play the hi's more quietly. Move it a tad further from the snare if you can. I don't even mic the hi's because most drummers i record pound the crap out of it so much i don't need a hihat mic. If you don't like the sound of your snare there are multiple ways to fix it. I actually use a tiny strip of duct tape(i know this'll drive everyone nuts) right in the middle of the bottom of the snare then tighten up the head a bit and i get a wonderful snare sound.

[firby]

Start off by recording a set with four mics. I am very serious. Kick, snare, and two overheads. Be sure that you have two condensor mics of the same type for your overheads.

You should be able to get a good sound with four mics. From there on you can work on the sound further. Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds like your problems are much more basic. You can do an XY with the condensors over the drummers head (the overheads) or you can do a spread stereo pair. Typically with my cheap overheads I use a spread stereo pair. I also use it with C414s that I record with every now and again.

If you get too much hihat in your mic then face the pattern of the mic away from the hihats or raise the mic up farther away.

For the close mics you can get different sounds depending on whether you point the mic capsule towards the center of the drum or towards the edge by the rim. The edge gives you a sustained "thoom" and the center gives you the attack.

I get best results by recording the bass drum tthru a 4 to 6 inch hole in the front head along the edge of the drum.



Recording drums is about the hardest thing to do. So don't expect to master it in two or three goes. You need to set aside time with a drummer and tweak it until you get it right. Furthermore, do a search this topic is constant.

[RAMI]

After I questioned using "8 or 9" mics:

Originally Posted by ecktronic

Nothing wrong with that Rammi. In my next session I am going to use 12 mics.
3 for the kick and 3 for the snare. (looking forward to a phaseing nightmare!!)

My most basic set up was 6 mics. 2 OHs, 1 for small tom, 1 for medium tom and floor tom and 1 on kick and 1 on snare. Got a really nice sound even from a not soo great drum kit. Just shoes how good tuning can do wonders.

Using a couple of mics can work, but using lots of mics will give way way more possiblity of different sounds at mixing. Worth experimenting with Rami.

I don't know how to put this without making it sound like I'm dissing the original poster in this thread, because that's not my intention. But, Ecktronic, you seem to have enough knowledge and experience to be able to use multiple mics. I've heard your recordings and you're no beginner. You know about phasing issues, etc...

Our original poster doesn't seem to have that knowledge and experience yet. I may be wrong, and if I am, I will apologise. But just the wording of his question and the fact that he's only been in the studio 3 times tells me that he's trying to run before he can walk. Dealing with "8 or 9" mics is taking on quite a task. It just seems to me that he should be able to get a good sound with 4 mics first and take it from there. That's the only reason I was surprised to read that he's using "8 or 9" mics after reading his posts. Again forgive me if I'm wrong. I'm not judging anyone's talent or knowledge, just going by the impression I got.

[RAMI]

I just realised I pretty much repeated what FIRBY said. Sorry about that, didn't mean to parrot. Listen to FIRBY, he speaks the truth.