cheap mixer with decent built in preamps

[hardcore guy]

I'm going to be recording my little experimental band that mainly consists of a juno 60 and drums. I've got some decent mics (a few sm57s, beta52, shure pg mics for toms and a pair of mxl 603s on the way for overheads). I'm running these through an m-audio omni interface into adobe audition (cool edit pro).
I need a decent mixer with phantom power to mix some of the drums on before I route it to the omni box. I've got this small berhinger euro mixer thing that I've used for small live applications but everyone on here rips on berhinger and I was wondering if another small mixer in the $100 price range would give me a better mic preamp sound. For what applications would I need a separate preamp?

[bigwillz24]

Yamaha MG 10/2 would be better...

I've had both mixers...

[travelin travis]

i have a yamaha mg mixer, which was reccommended by some members from here. for a budget mixer it sounds pretty good and is'nt noisy. mine is the 12/4 but they make a 10/2 that goes for $100 new. get stand alone preamps if you want a higher quality signal chain. anything you record will benefit from higher quality preamps but vocals and acoustic guitar seem to be the top reason for upgrading.

if the behringer is working for you then who cares what people say? i doubt you will be making any pro level recordings with it but I have'nt heard too many pro level recordings around here that were made with any low budget gear, regardless of brand name. hell, there are alot of recordings i have heard here that were made with high quality gear that sound mediocre. try to squeeze every last drop out of your existing gear and then if you feel like your gear is limiting you, start upgrading.

[Warhead]

Mackie Onyx. The preamps are tight and focused, and sound balanced top to bottom. The Onyx preamps play well with ribbons, condensors and dynamics. Very useable EQ and monitoring section as well, and it's a quiet board.

War

EDIT: Oops, you said $100! Uh...now I'm stumped...

[The Axis]

I have had Mackie VLZ, Earthworks, Great River, DMP2, Audio Buddy, and Behringer.

*If* I ever need any more cheap, but reasonable, peamps I am going to by a Behringer mixer.

They seem good enough for me.

[matt rascal]

Another vote for the yammie. Keep in mind though that it only has 4 microphone inputs.

I think Alesis makes a similar mixer for $150.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by The Axis

I have had Mackie VLZ, Earthworks, Great River, DMP2, Audio Buddy, and Behringer.

*If* I ever need any more cheap, but reasonable, peamps I am going to by a Behringer mixer.

They seem good enough for me.

How do the pres you currently own compare? I'd be interested in knowing about the DMP2, Audio Buddy, and Behringer.

[The Axis]

Disclaimer: I regard absolute colorlessness as the highest goal of a preamp. I am sure that lots of preamps sound great, but I personally judge them by how UNCOLORED they seem.

The DMP2 was about the best bargain on the Planet. It seemed completely
neutral and low noise. It was cheaply built, though. I sold it to keep experimenting.

At one time, I was obsessed with finding an absolutely colorless preamp, so I bought an earthworks LAB102 and a Great River MP2 at the same time. In subsequent A/B tests, I came to the conclusion that the EWKS was the best I have ever heard (still is). The GR sounded "good", but added a little high end "sparkle", almost like the "exciter" effect on some effects boxes. The physics behind the "exciter" effect are too long to go into here. I can see why some people like it, but it was not "natural". I sold the GR and kept the EW

My Behringer MIC2200 sounded quite good, but the parametric equalizer that was built in caused a little noise on extreme settings. I sold it when experimenting. No serious complaints though.

I still have a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer that I bought specifically for the preamps. It sounds "good" and low noise, but the high frequencies are definitely slightly boosted. This gives a "clean, crisp" sound that some also like, but it is a little cleaner and crisper than reality. Ironically, although the Mackie does sound good, it sounds the LEAST GOOD of all the preamps I experimented with.

The Audio Buddy is another bargain that really rivals the most expensive in SOUND, but is very cheaply built.

I auditioned a lot of Joe Meek, VMT1, Mindprint, Avalon, etc in stores and dismissed them very quickly because of the very obvious coloration. Here again, they sound "good" if you happen to like them, but they weren't for me. I can't even remember a lot unless you ask about them specifically. Also, except in my studio, where I was able to do direct A/B testing, I know it is very difficult to get a real unbiased test of a preamp, so a lot is just my impression at the time, but I was trying to be as honest with myself as possible.

Here is my opinion: 99% of a recorded sound comes from the microphone. All preamps sound pretty much the same. (BLASPHEMY !) Yes, there is some difference in coloration and noise, but it is subtle compared to the microphone's characteristics. Electronic signal processing technology is WAY beyond microphone technology (the thing that CREATES the signal).
Most of what you pay for in a preamp is solid, reliable case, knobs, good circuit-board construction, etc. The sound difference is a very minor issue. It is long-term reliability that creates the big differences in cost. ....and of course each preamp manufacturer has a marketing-scheme to establish the perceived quality of their product. I am convinced that any high-quality recording could be done with an Audio Buddy (which I still own).....or the Mackies...or any of them actually.

Of course, if you are really going for high quality, you want the highest quality preamp you can afford...but it is mostly driven by insecurity. Spend most of your budget on mikes, and then worry about the writing, performance, and production. Any preamp you can afford will do a good job.

The only preamp I ever listened to that sounded "bad" was the JoeMeek. Here again, it had a "sound" that some people obviously like, but it was the most obviously "colored" preamp I ever heard.

I know this will be disagreed with by some here, but it is just my opinions.