Man..I'm confused on Budget Mic pre's. Please help

[adclark]

So many choices, so many opinions. Everybody here loves the M-audio DMP3. Anyone have samples? I just listened to the sample of the Electro Harmonix tube pre....very good..I love the sound. I listented to a sample of the Studio Projects pre........nice sound as well. I really want two channels. Right now I cannot afford two GT Bricks. I can afford afford one dual channel DMP3. Two Presonus Tube pre's or One Bluetube DP. Two studio Projects tube pre's. PLEASE POST ANY SOUND SAMPLES OF MIC PREAMPS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. The DMP3 is leading the pack..I just want to hear one. But, I love a bit of tube colorization (The electro-Harmonix sample was impressive). Are the presonus Tube pre's that bad? My firebox is built like a tank and sounds great as well. Please help me with this state of confusion. Please post some samples (Mp3's are fine). Especially with DMP3.

[deepwater]

I don't know if you have a small mixer if not you shoud look at getting a Yamaha MG series for around $100.00. By doing that you will have something that you can keep and use in your studio. Otherwise, I would save up until you can get something usable like the Brick, or M-Audio Tampa

[diogo]

i do have a dmp3 and im very happy with it...i always hear it gives the 500 buck FNR RNP a run for its value...

if i were you, i would consider two electro harmonix pres, total value about 300 bucks if u can have the seller make u a deal for buying two. i can.

thats the price of ONE GT brick...

if you need diversity, wich i dont, i would get the dmp3 first and then go from there, cause you will have a clean pre (dmp3) and can add to it in the future for some colour (ex. the electro harmonix pre)..

if you're considering the electro harmonix pre, you shouldnt be considering the starved plate designs, presonus, art, etc...for 20 or 30 more bucks you can get a real tube pre that sounds just like u heard there: awesome.

the starved plate stuff you're considering, in theory wont match the dmp3 either, wich is a very good deal for nearly nothing. but thats from i what i read here, as ive never tried any starved plate pre. most ppl think they're great bass DI's, but more than that, its hard.

sorry dont have any clips, but i can assure that you'll be happy with the dmp3, but i can also assure you that, if u save up a bit for 2 channels of electro harmonix pre, you'll be in the friggin clouds.

[tdukex]

The DMP3 has a ton of very clean gain without being strident or harsh, and it produces a very nice, three-dimensional stereo field when recording in stereo. The Blutube is worthless IMO. The DMP3 is great for recording acou guit and beats even the RNP for that app IMO. It also works well on percussion and does a workman's job on vox. The clips I've heard of it as a bass DI were not impressive, and I have not tried it on elec guit. I think it would make an excellent compliment to the Brick, which reportedly excells on the things the DMP3 doesn't. So, for $500 you could have three channels of pre that cover most--if not all--of your needs.

[scrubs]

In my opinion, with budget pres, you are ideally looking for clean, uncolored gain. The DMP3 does this very well. I've gone down the "toob" pre path and been generally disappointed. The only one worth mentioning in the super-cheap category is the SP VTB-1, which can run as a pure solid-state pre and has the option of adding some "toobness." The DMP3 and VTB-1 work well together. Another one to check out would be the Rane MS1B, which is supposed to be another very clean pre (but lacks DI).

If you have a little more to spend, the Brick is a nice, full-voltage tube pre that would complement the DMP3 very well (I have both and use the DMP3 for acoustic guitar and the Brick for vocals and bass DI). The Electroharmonix pre may be good as well.

What are you not liking about the pres in the firebox? In general, you will get more tonal variations by adding to your mic collection vs. focusing on pres.

[adclark]

The firebox pre's are ok. From what I've heard, a good outboard pre will improve the overall sound. I'm really leaning toward the DMP3 and maybe pick up an electroHarmonix later for color.

[diogo]

in my opinion thats your best move..its exactly what ill be doing myself..i have the dmp3 wich is a workhouse and for its value, u get it for nearly nothing if u compare the sound with "toob" that normally runs for the same price - one channel...dmp3 is better - 2 channels ...later on ill pick up the electro harmonix pre.

the brick seems to be pretty good as well, but for what the electro harmonix is going for, i dont see that move as being cost effective, or even quality wise..for the price of one brick, u can get two electro harmonix pres.

[mikey@thecave]

what about a dual channel joe meek piece with a compressor aboard new or old models

[Scottgman]

I've got an RNP and a DMP3. I haven't done an A/B comparison of them so I cannot really make a fair comparison. But, from just using both on various sources like drum OHs, vocals, mic'ing guitar cabinets, and mic'ing acoustic guitars-- I can't really tell much difference between the two. So, I'm not sure the performance of the RNP justifies the extra money relative to the DMP3.

On a side note, all the hype about the RNC is true (I own two)!

I went from a Behringer MX802 mixer to a Mackie VLZ1202 mixer to a DMP3. The DMP3 blew me away. It was so much cleaner and better sounding than the pres in the Behringer (go figure ) or the Mackie.

I don't think you will be disappointed in the DMP3 at all. It's a nice piece of gear for the price!

Hope that helps!

[diogo]

Originally Posted by Scottgman

I've got an RNP and a DMP3. I haven't done an A/B comparison of them so I cannot really make a fair comparison. But, from just using both on various sources like drum OHs, vocals, mic'ing guitar cabinets, and mic'ing acoustic guitars-- I can't really tell much difference between the two. So, I'm not sure the performance of the RNP justifies the extra money relative to the DMP3.
!

Scott, its really cool hearing someone that actually owns the RNP, admiting that. a really nice thing to read. tanx!

[FALKEN]

Originally Posted by scrubs

In my opinion, with budget pres, you are ideally looking for clean, uncolored gain.

I think with budget gear it will probably be easier to get something that's dirty! when you're going to drop 2 g's, thats when u get the clean machine. try to get something clean on the cheap and you will still end up with distortion, it will just be in the upper harmonics and you wont really notice it until after you've recorded your album and you're wondering why its fatiguing and sounds like arse. but ive never used a DMP3. but really, any product called "dumpy" can't be that great, can it?

[diogo]

Falken,

you're probably right about the budget pres "ruining" a mix in the end, especially busy mixes, but if that was half of the problem you seem to be stating, then why the hell buy budget gear at all?

then everyone would have to sit in the corner and wait for the big break record deal, or pay huge fees at some crappy neighberhood studio (with worse gear than whats at our disposal nowadays, cause if no one bought budget gear, why the hell bother to develop it right?), cause a few years ago, it would be the only thing avaliable.

in my view, get the budget gear if u dont like to deal with studios/or cant afford them, or simply cant go into one (as in my case..i simply dont have any decent studios around and its a very musical chalenged country when it comes to recording - portugal), and learn it inside out...whats the worse that can happen? you're still gonna end up with better recordings than most of the mid last century highly "wam" valued ones, you're not gonna be overwhelmed if u ever step into a studio and you're gonna be able to tell a compressor from a preamp, or an outboard reverb from a vcr...you're gonna have to be creative to go around the imperfections of the gear, just like in the old days...

i dont see any negative points in budget gear...unless you're trying to cut albums with it and trying to fool ppl...but in my opinion, thats just not possible. not saying albums cant be recorder with budget gear though..i dont know shit, but i know that, a decent engineer could cut an album with a nice room and some decent budget gear...but thats not the point.

ppl that want to make real records will need to go to real studios, still and that aint changing anytime soon. great music will always be great music, be it on a neve console with neuman mics, in the best room in the world, or a dmp3 and some mxl mics, in a bedroom near a busy road (yep, thats me) .

[tdukex]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

I think with budget gear it will probably be easier to get something that's dirty! when you're going to drop 2 g's, thats when u get the clean machine. try to get something clean on the cheap and you will still end up with distortion, it will just be in the upper harmonics and you wont really notice it until after you've recorded your album and you're wondering why its fatiguing and sounds like arse. but ive never used a DMP3. but really, any product called "dumpy" can't be that great, can it?

My understanding is that doing a good clean pre is much easier and less expensive than doing a good colored pre.

I do not believe your inexpensive clean pre = distortion in the upper harmonics = "sounds like arse," theory. Do you have any substantiated scientific data or a consensus of professional opinions to back this claim up?

Although I agree that tracks recorded specifically with truly shitty pres (like the Blutube) usually "sound like arse," I also believe that most "sounds like arse" recordings are caused by lack of talent at the sound source and in the engineer's seat.

[diogo]

Originally Posted by tdukex

I also believe that most "sounds like arse" recordings are caused by lack of talent at the sound source and in the engineer's seat.

indeed!

[Chris F]

Originally Posted by adclark

Please help me with this state of confusion. Please post some samples (Mp3's are fine). Especially with DMP3.

Here's a sample of an acoustic jazz duo cut recorded with a DMP3. One of the piano mics wasn't so great and has since been replaced, but you get the idea. I really like it as a clean pre with lots of headroom. Warning: if you don't like jazz, you likely won't like this cut!

[adclark]

Very nice sounding. It also sounds warm as well. Sounds like the DMP3 is the place to start then add a brick or electro harmonix later for colorization. I just love that British Oasis tube sound though.

[kidvybes]

...I have to second Scrub's recommendation of the Rane MS1-B mic pre here...these $149. mic pres were used on Steely Dan's last live album by Engineer Supreme Roger Nichols...they are employed in many high end studios for their clean direct circuit (very similar to the Grace design)...they won a notorious LA studio mic-pre shootout against a slew of high end mic pres...no other mic pre at this price point is used as often on major label recording projects...to purchase budget pres without considering the Ranes would be a travesty...search this website for more remarks, and also Google "Rane MS1B" to get all the positive info...no "bling", just pure clean input!...

[makes]

Im not sure if the Presonus MP20s qualify for "budget pres" I guess that depends on your finances.
Anyway, I have 2 of them, I purchased used for around 350.00
ea.
They sound great very clean, great for anything I've recorded. Also, the service with Presonus is excellent. I just had to send one for repair and the experience was really good. Great communication and input from Chad at Presonus.

They are also way cool because you can swith out op amps easily. Several options for those out there.
I have a Univeral Audio M610 Tube pre, I use the MP20's when I want ultra clean. Not to say the UA wont get clean, but its tube and obviously so.
Try the MP20's if you get a chance.

Makes

[gemsbok]

if anyone has the time to check out the original roger nichols description of the rane mic pre they would have a different thoughts. i took it as he was having a laugh at throwing in a cheapo unheard of mic pre(spur of the moment) and it sounded good for the application he needed it for. everybody instantly took it as this mic pre is the thing to have and better than anything. if ozzy said he now sings into a mr. microphone would you buy one. its just a case of would you jump off the bridge if britney told you to. all these recording wanna bee-s who never owned one all the sudden started recommenending them. dont you think its just a case of roger not using budget a op amp based mic pre for so long that the way it sounded was so different from the taste pallet that it actually worked in a mix. pretty comical

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by gemsbok

all these recording wanna bee-s who never owned one all the sudden started recommenending them. dont you think its just a case of roger not using budget a op amp based mic pre for so long that the way it sounded was so different from the taste pallet that it actually worked in a mix. pretty comical

Well, you're kinda' dissing it without actually having tried it.

Look, the MS-1B happens to be a fine mic pre. And not just for the money. It's a good thing for anyone to have around, because it sounds really transparent, and it has a natural bass roll-off to it.

Some of the gear snobs look at that as a bad thing. As if not having a linear bass response is some sort of defect, and a sign of a cheap mic pre. In actuality, most people tend to roll off the low end on a lot of things anyway. The only thing I personaly don't do it for would be kick drum, or maybe if I'm mic'ing bass guitar.

Truth be told, it sounds great on most things; particularly accoustic guitar.

[fernandoesmaron]

Who did compare or use an soundcraft E or M Series mixer and an DMP3 ?

Is the DMP3 really better than the pres from Soundcraft ?

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by gemsbok

if anyone has the time to check out the original roger nichols description of the rane mic pre they would have a different thoughts. i took it as he was having a laugh at throwing in a cheapo unheard of mic pre(spur of the moment) and it sounded good for the application he needed it for. everybody instantly took it as this mic pre is the thing to have and better than anything. if ozzy said he now sings into a mr. microphone would you buy one. its just a case of would you jump off the bridge if britney told you to. all these recording wanna bee-s who never owned one all the sudden started recommenending them. dont you think its just a case of roger not using budget a op amp based mic pre for so long that the way it sounded was so different from the taste pallet that it actually worked in a mix. pretty comical

...I've met (and chatted with) Roger here in FL where we both live (he occassionally drops by a live Reggae Party we throw every Sunday nite in W.Palm Beach)...he truly believes in the utilitarian simplicity of the Ranes, and uses them frequently in his sessions...jeez, Steely Dan's records are just about the "cleanest" sounding recordings you could ask for, and a couple dozen Ranes were used for the last album (not to mention that the Steely Dan records are some of Nichols' most respected stuff...surely he's not gonna screw around and take their "live" reunion album lightly)...he brought the Rane to the mic-pre shootout as a lark (already believing how good they sound, but not expecting them to blow away so many of the high-end pres)...the results were impressive, but Roger would be the first to tell you, that the Ranes are serious pres at budget pricing...I find that they let the "character" of the mic come thru, without the coloration that many other pres tend to impart...very clean and direct input...well worth owning a pair...
...and shit, this may be one of the first times Chessrock and I agree on something...that's gotta be worth something! (...maybe not)...


...here's the link to that original Nichols thread:
http://www.ioforums.net/forums/view_...=15&forum_id=5

[Chris F]

Originally Posted by fernandoesmaron

Who did compare or use an soundcraft E or M Series mixer and an DMP3 ?

Is the DMP3 really better than the pres from Soundcraft ?

I have two DMP3's, a Tampa, and a Soundcraft M12. To my ears, the M-Audio pres are clearly a cut above the soundcraft pres in terms of imaging, clarity, warmth, and depth. YMMV.

[Hiwatt Bob]

Chris F,

i thoroughly enjoyed that jazz piece. well played, and well recorded. nice job.

[Scottgman]

Yeah the jazz piece was nice. I was listening to it yesterday while I was reading some stuff. At one point I forgot I was listening to an example of a budget pre and was simply enjoying a cool jazz recording. Nice work!