"tightening algorhithms"

[ad0lescnts]

I was talking to somebody about going about mixing a specific project and they started talking about software that "tightens algorithms" so that everybody's tracked performances sound tighter together. As if it changed waht was recorded to conform all the tracks rhythmically? Is there such a program? It sounds too crazy too me

T

[corban]

Not that I've heard of, if they're talking about recorded audio. Can't imagine it would necessarily sound very good. If you're talking MIDI, sure. It's called quantize.

[chessrock]

You might be thinking about beat detective , which is really only useful for drums and other highly percussive material.

Theoretically speaking, it should be possible to come up with something that might work on an entire mix within the multitrack session. At least in the sense that if there were two transient peaks occuring close to the same time -- for example: kick drum and bass guitar pluck -- it would be possible to design a program that will line these instances up closer together.

The main problem you'd run it to is that, assuming it's automated, the program might start lining things up that are actually supposed to be a little off from one another and it would start losing all feel.

It sure would be a nice tool, though, if you culd just highlight the sections you want tightened, and then have the program take a stab at it -- rather than having to do it manually, which can be time-consuming.

[kylen]

Originally Posted by ad0lescnts

I was talking to somebody about going about mixing a specific project and they started talking about software that "tightens algorithms" so that everybody's tracked performances sound tighter together. As if it changed waht was recorded to conform all the tracks rhythmically? Is there such a program? It sounds too crazy too me
T

A compressor and expander can do that - you know this! A friend of mine mentioned he was going to 'tighten the mix' by adding a touch of compression - about half-past the 80's. So it was kind of a slang term then in analog...it seems to have been updated to 'tightening alrogithm' ! Just guessing...think of a compressor to add a bit of punch and an expander to slightly dampen any loose stuff and see if you don't get the 'tightening' visual - attack and release handle the rhythmic parts of the equation - excuse me 'algorithm'...

[IronFlippy]

Such an algorithm wouldn't be too incredibly complex. I'm sure if I spent the time I could come up with something simple that does the trick.

I think the reason that they don't have something like this already is that it can make crappy bands sound like they know their stuff and have it down. If you want everything to be tight, then just practice, it'll sound better than any algorithm you can come up with.

[wesley tanner]

Originally Posted by IronFlippy

Such an algorithm wouldn't be too incredibly complex. I'm sure if I spent the time I could come up with something simple that does the trick.

I think the reason that they don't have something like this already is that it can make crappy bands sound like they know their stuff and have it down.

then how come they made auto-tune?

I'm callin yo' bluff, let's get that algorithm budddy

but i agree, it pry doesn't exist comercially cause it sounds like ass, and tight bands sound better than ass.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by wesley tanner

but i agree, it pry doesn't exist comercially cause it sounds like ass, and tight bands sound better than ass.

take a look at chessrock's post, people....he just told you it's already on the market...and has been for awhile.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally Posted by IronFlippy

Such an algorithm wouldn't be too incredibly complex. I'm sure if I spent the time I could come up with something simple that does the trick.

I think the reason that they don't have something like this already is that it can make crappy bands sound like they know their stuff and have it down. If you want everything to be tight, then just practice, it'll sound better than any algorithm you can come up with.

I think what you're saying is that you are incredibly too complex. I'm not sure who "they" are but audio engineers pray for such a tool because it would make the job of shining shit soo much easier.

[wesley tanner]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

take a look at chessrock's post, people....he just told you it's already on the market...and has been for awhile.

beat dective, i read it. it's for highly transient stuff.

I still don't think that the reason it's not on the market is cause "it can make crappy bands sound like they know their stuff and have it down." C'mon man...

and i'd looove to see what it does to a full project. and if he can come up with a simple plug in for me to tighten people's performances, that'd be awesome...

[Halion]

Dudes, it already exists, and it's called:
Melodyne
http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/

It's a pitch tuner and a timing fixer sort of thing that uses complex but amazingly good timestretching and pitch bending to take full control over any audio file.

[HangDawg]

I don't believe it. So, you're telling me that if you have a song that is already mixed and the drummer dropped a kick shot late the bass player hit it too early and the guitar was somewhere in between that there is some magical plugin that will extract each instrument and align it properly. Hogwash, I don't fuckin believe it.

[bennychico11]

"Melodyne is a multitrack audio recording and editing application"


looks like it's a combination of Autotuner and Beat Detective.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

"Melodyne is a multitrack audio recording and editing application"


looks like it's a combination of Autotuner and Beat Detective.

Looks like all their examples are of single instrument tracks. I could see that working. But it's not going to do a whole mix.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by kylen

A compressor and expander can do that - you know this!

I'm sorry, but you misunderstood what the question is about. Either that or you have no idea what a compressor does.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

Looks like all their examples are of single instrument tracks. I could see that working. But it's not going to do a whole mix.

nah of course not...that's about as easy as trying to get rid of the guitar on a mixed stereo file

[kylen]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

I'm sorry, but you misunderstood what the question is about. Either that or you have no idea what a compressor does.

No - if you guys are talkin about choppin up tracks like Acid and re-quantizing audio to some different timing pulse or groove like you can with midi tracks I'm not talking about that at all - you're right. I'm talking about using a compressor or expander to do it's thing to subtly manipulate a groove using attack/release controls. If the timing is really far off then it really needs to be re-tracked, or else just create a bunch of loops and make some acid jazz. Thanks for asking though!

[EleKtriKaz]

Originally Posted by kylen

No - if you guys are talkin about choppin up tracks like Acid and re-quantizing audio to some different timing pulse or groove like you can with midi tracks I'm not talking about that at all - you're right. I'm talking about using a compressor or expander to do it's thing to subtly manipulate a groove using attack/release controls. If the timing is really far off then it really needs to be re-tracked, or else just create a bunch of loops and make some acid jazz. Thanks for asking though!

A compressor isn't going to fix timing. It won't do anything with timing. Compressor is a device where you set a threshold, above which the compressor will reduce the signal according to specified attack and release times. The reduction is dependent upon the ratio. For 3:1 ratio: For every 3dbs over the threshold, the compressor will only allow 1db. This has nothing to do with timing. It will change the dynamic range of whatever you use it on, but it won't tighten anything...unless you consider something being more "punchy" or less dynamic, etc...tightening.

[kylen]

Originally Posted by EleKtriKaz

...unless you consider something being more "punchy" or less dynamic, etc...tightening.

Yes that is what I was saying - compressor/expander to tighten up and give or take punch and groove (not pulse or timing). That's what we used to mean by tightening...No it won't change timing which is what you guys seems to be talking about that's way too severe for comp/exp.

I guess some type of track/full mix audio quantization would be the logical progression of the Acid and dsp time stretching algorithms but it's not in my vocabulary - that must be why I'm fightin it . But it's cool why not use it in a creation if you can make it sound good. The stuff I've heard time stretched/compressed always has artifacts, but as with all things, there's always the day when the dream becomes reality.

[corban]

Yeah, the original question was about rhythmically lining up tracks: tightening up. I can see it working on single tracks of punchy material like snare, but anything else like guitar or piano with more sustained notes, my imagination leads me to believe it would end up sounding not so good.