Does kbps matter for file importing

[Nate74]

I'm trying to put together a project with wav files recorded on two different systems: a ProTools system that generated .wavs that were 96/24 and .wavs from my HD24XR, also at 96/24. I can import the wavs from the protools session no problem, but for some reason the wavs from my HD24 won't import.

When I check the files' properties, the only difference I see is in the Bit Rates. The protools generated waves are 2304 kbps and the ones from my HD24 are 6144. Does that matter? How can I fix it so all the files will import into my Cakewalk?

Thanks

[AlChuck]

WAVs with bit rates? I thought that was only used as a measure in compressed audio files (MP3, WMA, Real Audio, etc.) to indicate how fast the data stream needed to be for them to stream effectively.

[fraserhutch]

I believe wave files can be in any rate you record them at - 16 bit 44.1, 24-bit 48, whatever.

[Nate74]

I'm confused by this... here's a more detailed description. When I go to the individual wav files and look at the summary tab on "properties" for the ones I can import they say:

Bit Rate 2304kbps
Audio sample size 24 bit
Channels 1(mono)
Audio sample rate 96kHz
Audio format PCM

And the ones I recorded which won't import into CW say:

Bit Rate 6122kbps
Audio sample size 24 bit
Channels 1(mono)
Audio sample rate 96kHz
Audio format PCM

So they both have a sample rate of 96kHz, it's that darn bit Rate that is different.

Heck I don't even know if this is the problem, but it's the only difference I can find in the two files

Any other thoughts?

[AlChuck]

I believe wave files can be in any rate you record them at - 16 bit 44.1, 24-bit 48, whatever.

The number of bits of resolution is different than a bit rate. The bit rate is a measure of how many bits per second (or how many thousand bits per second in the case of kbps) are passed through a network connection. An MP3 with a bit rate of 96 kbps basically tells you that the connection needs to be about that fast for the file to get across the network so that it won't stutter or stop when played back.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by AlChuck

The number of bits of resolution is different than a bit rate. The bit rate is a measure of how many bits per second (or how many thousand bits per second in the case of kbps) are passed through a network connection. An MP3 with a bit rate of 96 kbps basically tells you that the connection needs to be about that fast for the file to get across the network so that it won't stutter or stop when played back.

actually, un;ess I am seriously mistaken in my audio theory, the bit rate is how many bits per second it takes to represent a (digital) signal.

[DonaldChang]

ok from what I know MP3's have a maxiumum kbps of 320.A 16 bit 44.1khz mono file is 706 kbps.That information shows in Winamp.Ok I guess this wasnt really relevant but...ok.I dont know hwow to inmport your HD waves.

[Nate74]

Hmmmm.... I've done this countless times with 44.1/24 files and 48/24 files so what's up with these particular 96/24 files and Cakewalk? Hope some body jumps in here.

[Nate74]

Here's some more fuel for the confussion fire. On a whim, I converted the 96/24 files to 48/24 with R8Brain. Then converted them back to 96/24. The Bit Rate dropped from the original 6144 to 2304 and imported fine into CW...

[AlChuck]

actually, un;ess I am seriously mistaken in my audio theory, the bit rate is how many bits per second it takes to represent a (digital) signal.

You are mistaken. The bit depth or resolution is the number of bits used for each digital sample. The sampling rate is how many samples are captured per second. So a 16-bit 44.1 kHz sampling rate captures 44,100 samples every second, each one consisting of 16 bits of data.

The bit rate of a connection is how many bits pass a given point per second.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by AlChuck

You are mistaken. The bit depth or resolution is the number of bits used for each digital sample. The sampling rate is how many samples are captured per second. So a 16-bit 44.1 kHz sampling rate captures 44,100 samples every second, each one consisting of 16 bits of data.

The bit rate of a connection is how many bits pass a given point per second.

Ah, yes, my bad, actually, you are half-right.

Indeed, I had the term confused. However, bit rate has nothing to do with a connection, it literally is the *average* number of bits per second required to by the audio source. It is independent of, and knows nothing about a connection.

[AlChuck]

If there's no connection between a source (for example, the audio data on a storage device) and a destination (for example, the sound hardware that's turning the audio from digital to analog to send it out to the speakers), then a rate of transfer of bits is meaningless. A connection is implicit whether you hook some external wire up or not. The connection is what makes the flow of data happen.

[minofifa]

airgo, visa vi, concordedly.......

[Nate74]

So um... anythoughts on the problem I'm having? For instance, is the difference I'm seeing in Bit Rate actually the source of my problem?

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by AlChuck

If there's no connection between a source (for example, the audio data on a storage device) and a destination (for example, the sound hardware that's turning the audio from digital to analog to send it out to the speakers), then a rate of transfer of bits is meaningless. A connection is implicit whether you hook some external wire up or not. The connection is what makes the flow of data happen.

huh? Ummm, I don't think so........

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Nate74

So um... anythoughts on the problem I'm having? For instance, is the difference I'm seeing in Bit Rate actually the source of my problem?

In this I would agree with Al. to the best of my knowledge, wavs do not have bit rates because the number of bits per second is static (depth *sample count).

I would check your setting to make sure you are not compressing your audio in some way.

[minofifa]

Originally Posted by fraserhutch

huh? Ummm, I don't think so........

what doesn't make sense to you, it's pretty logical. and why are .wav files static? they can have any combination of bit depth or sample rate, and thus their bit transfer rate is gonna be different.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by minofifa

what doesn't make sense to you, it's pretty logical. and why are .wav files static? they can have any combination of bit depth or sample rate, and thus their bit transfer rate is gonna be different.

They're static in that once you have determined the bit depth and sample rate, the rate does not change, unlike mp3s. They are completely deterministic in that two recordings of the same depth and rate will be of the same size for the same length clip. Not true for mp3s.

With mp3s, and indeed a lot of compression schemes, the number of bits/sec required to encode audio (I didn't read closely enough and got my terms munged before) varies across the encoding. The bit rate represents the *average* number of bits/sec required to represent the audio.

It has NOTHING to do with connections, or streaming, or what not. It may seem like quibbling, but it really isn't.

Now, it SO HAPPENS that yes, the transfer rate affects the rate of transmission across a network, IN THE SAME WAY that a wave file of different bit depth and sample rate will.

[Paul881]

I think I have just lost the will to live

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Paul881

I think I have just lost the will to live

Did you check your settings to see if you are unwittingly compressing your data? I think we are all in agreement that what you are seeing shouldn't be. We're missing something here - your wav files should not have a bit rate.

[Paul881]

I am now dead

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Paul881

I am now dead

Paul is dead - Paul is dead!

Actually my bad, you weren't the original poster, just someone who was trying to make a funny.

Didn't work.

[Nate74]

Well I'm not dead... yet, so I'll take any input I can get!

The FST software used to transfer data from the HD24's hard drive to my PC is really not that deep. I do have an option between 16-bit and 24-bit, but beyond that, I just get what I get off of it.

I've scowered the Alesis site and have found nothing about Bit Rate.

I have to ask: when everybody else looks at the Summary tab under the Properties of a wav file on their PCs, don't you see a value for Bit Rate?

I just can't believe I'm the only person in the world who has recorded at 96/24 on an HD24 and then tried to import files into CW...

[fraserhutch]

Aha! I think I *may* know what your problem is.
I just looked up some wavs created by my audio app. The bit rate is there, but it is exactly as I mentioned it wold be above: depth * sample rate. In my case, they are both 24-bit, 48, which gives a bit rateof 1152k.

Another wav I have is 24 bit, 48k, and has a bit rate of 2304k. Why? It's a stereo track.

This simple formula hols true for all wavs on my box.

In your first post, the first track is mono @ 24*96k = 2304k.

I don't know what the hell your second track is. 6144k / 24 bit = 256, which is suggestive, but I don't know of what yet. It's an absurd sample rate. It's as if there were a BUNCH of tracks munged into that wav.

How large is that track? Could you post a link to it?

[minofifa]

wavs do not have bit rates

Another wav I have is 24 bit, 48k, and has a bit rate of 2304k

do they or don't they.....