Can foam be air space?

[HapiCmpur]

Hey guys (and gals, too, if any are perusing these boards),

I'm getting ready to hang my DIY acoustic panels (pics coming soon), and I'm thinking about ways to keep them adequately spaced from the walls. One thing I'm considering is putting a few blocks of 4" thick foam between the wall and the back of each panel.

Question: Will any old stiff foam suffice (especially if I keep it to a minimum), or would it be worthwhile to use acoustic foam instead? For that matter, should I be using foam at all? Should I instead use something that will take up less space, or does foam qualify as space in this application?

[mshilarious]

Like a small block on each corner? Should work fine.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Like a small block on each corner? Should work fine.

That's what I was thinking, yes. Another idea was to put 4" long posts, maybe even door-stoppers, at each corner of each panel instead of foam blocks. I'm leaning toward foam, though, because I think it will be a lot kinder to my walls. Also, it won't rattle when I'm making a lot of noise -- er...I mean music -- in the studio.

So should I bother with acoustic foam (like at FoamByMail.com), or would I do just as well by going to the local arts 'n' crafts store?

[notbradsohner]

probably dont need to bother with acoustic foam. It would probably eventually tear after a while becasue it had all that weight hanging on it.

[wells]

If you are going to order foam from FoamByMail.com, use their eBay Store. Prices are almost cut in half on some things, but they don't carry some products (i.e. studio columns or ceiling tiles).

Could we see a couple pictures of your acoustic panels, or similar products and their weight?

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by wells

Could we see a couple pictures of your acoustic panels, or similar products and their weight?

Here's a pic of one of my unfinished panels. (There's a larger finished panel in the background, but it's going to sit on the floor instead of hanging on the wall.)

I don't have a bathroom scale, so I'm going to venture a SWAG that this panel weighs about 30 lbs. I'm hoping that the weight won't crush my foam spacers since most of it will be pulling downward instead of inward toward the wall.

[MrBoogie]

I've been wondering: With these home-made panels, does the wood used for the frame make any difference? I mean does it matter if it's a heavier denser wood, or a light-weight wood? Does it affect the acoustic properties of the panel as a whole?

MrBoogie

[Milkman]

Originally Posted by MrBoogie

I've been wondering: With these home-made panels, does the wood used for the frame make any difference? I mean does it matter if it's a heavier denser wood, or a light-weight wood? Does it affect the acoustic properties of the panel as a whole?

MrBoogie

I don't think it has any affect on the acoustic properties at all. The wooden frame, as I understand it, simply makes the hanging process easier. Just hang it like a picture and you're set. I chose to go with no wooden frame, and just hung the panels using sticky velcro.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by MrBoogie

I've been wondering: With these home-made panels, does the wood used for the frame make any difference? I mean does it matter if it's a heavier denser wood, or a light-weight wood? Does it affect the acoustic properties of the panel as a whole?

MrBoogie

Any frame will slightly decrease the absorption of the panel as it blocks the sides of the insulation. But we're talking a very small effect.

[wells]

I did used a hybrid method of hanging my panels.... a stip of wood stapled (½") across the top, with one staple coming straight out of the wood as a "hook". Then a nail in the wall to hang it on. Makes it about 29 pounds less than your panel HapiCmpur. Personal preferance. I chose the lazy route over your better, more proffessional-looking route.

As for haning the panels, at 30 pounds, I highly advise against hanging it with foam. No matter how well attatched your foam is to the wall, it would just rip under the weight of that panel. I didnt know you were using 2x4's as a frame!
The picture frame method would work well (with extra-heavy wire of course). I remember door stoppers being mentioned earlier in this thread... some of that lined around the wall-facing end of your panel would reduce any rattles and would prevent your wall from getting marked up.

Good luck with your hanging adventure.

p.s... how many of these do you have to hang? How many are you flooring?

[punkin]

Have you considered hanging them from the ceiling?

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by wells

I did used a hybrid method of hanging my panels.... a stip of wood stapled (½") across the top, with one staple coming straight out of the wood as a "hook". Then a nail in the wall to hang it on. Makes it about 29 pounds less than your panel HapiCmpur.

I'm confused. You mean your whole panel weighs only a pound? Even without a frame, rigid fiberglass weighs a lot more than that. I must not understand what you're saying.

Originally Posted by wells

As for haning the panels, at 30 pounds, I highly advise against hanging it with foam. No matter how well attatched your foam is to the wall, it would just rip under the weight of that panel.

Oh, I wasn't going to hang it from the foam. The plan is to hang the panel just like a big picture frame (a big-ass picture frame) and to use the foam as spacers to hold it away from the wall by about 3 or 4 inches.

Originally Posted by wells

I didnt know you were using 2x4's as a frame!

I didn't. The one in the photo is a 2" thick piece of fiberglass in a frame made of 1x3s. The bigger one in the background is two 2" thick pieces of fiberglass in a frame made of 1x4s.

Originally Posted by wells

p.s... how many of these do you have to hang? How many are you flooring?

I've got 8 panels in the room right now, and even though they're not hung up yet they've completely changed the acoustics of the room. The difference is AMAZING! When I'm finished I should have three panels standing on the floor in the corners, three more hanging up high in the corners, four or five on the walls, one on the door, and two on the ceiling. I know that's ambitious, but I think the room's going to sound incredible when they're all in.

Originally Posted by punkin

Have you considered hanging them from the ceiling?

Yes, but I think it will be harder to get them hanging straight and even that way. In addition, I'll have to worry about them swinging if they get bumped. Also, I've got a textured ceiling in that room, so I'm trying to minimize the number of holes I punch in it. Every mistake is something I'm going to have to live with for a very long time.

[wells]

I'm confused. You mean your whole panel weighs only a pound? Even without a frame, rigid fiberglass weighs a lot more than that. I must not understand what you're saying.

oops, I wrote that wrong... I meant that my mounting "hardware" weighs only about a pound. Yes, my panel plus that is much more than a pound.

Oh, I wasn't going to hang it from the foam. The plan is to hang the panel just like a big picture frame (a big-ass picture frame) and to use the foam as spacers to hold it away from the wall by about 3 or 4 inches.

I think this idea is the best. The foam as spacers is what i meant by "door stoppers"....

some of "that" lined around the wall-facing end of your panel would reduce any rattles and would prevent your wall from getting marked up.

Just replace "that" with your foam and you're good to go.
Man, forums can be confusing!
One more thing: I dont know what type of wall you have and how thick or strong it is, but when hanging your panels, it might be good to find studs and hang them on those. If your wall is strong enough to support it, however, don't worry about the studs.

[Innovations]

I would suggest putting blocks (foam or whatever) at the corners for spacing away from the wall but hanging it with picture wire attached to the wodden frame itself.

[COOLCAT]

Hapicmpur
nice. damn... nice.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by wells

I dont know what type of wall you have and how thick or strong it is, but when hanging your panels, it might be good to find studs and hang them on those. If your wall is strong enough to support it, however, don't worry about the studs.

My plan is to use studs when I can, but acoustics, of course, will also play a role in where I hang the panels. Studs or not, for example, I'm going to want panels on the walls directly to the left and right of my mixing position. For that reason, I bought a bunch of those plastic E-Z Anchor self-drilling drywall fasterners. I'm going to use those and eye screws instead of standard picture hanging hooks. And as Innovations suggested, I'm also going to use eye screws on the frame of each panel.

The E-Z fasterners claim to hold 50 lbs, and I think eye screws will work much better than hooks because the foam spacers behind each panel are going to create some force AWAY from the wall, in addition to gravity's downward pull. That outward force might allow a strand of picture wire to slip over the top of a hook, especially if somebody bumps the panel. A screw eye, however, will only fail if the fastener pulls out of the wall. (I think.)

If anyone has gotten good results from another hanging system, I'd sure like to hear about it soon. I don't want to find out AFTER I've put a bunch of holes in my walls that there was a much better way to do this. Thanks.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

...and I think eye screws will work much better than hooks because the foam spacers behind each panel are going to create some force AWAY from the wall, in addition to gravity's downward pull. That outward force might allow a strand of picture wire to slip over the top of a hook, especially if somebody bumps the panel. A screw eye, however, will only fail if the fastener pulls out of the wall. (I think.)

It just dawned on me that using eye screws in the way I describe above would be foolish. If I did that, I'd have to thread my picture wire through the eye and then reattach it to the panel frame instead of just flipping the wire over a wall hook. Therefore, instead of putting eye screws into the wall, I'm going to use deeply curved hooks that are kind of like eye screws but that don't quite make a full circle.

With any luck, I should get most of my panels up this weekend. Then I can send some pics and describe what worked and what didn't.

By the way, are they called eye screws or screw eyes?

[wells]

Hey, good realization (is that a word?). I would have never thought of that until I started.

By the way, are they called eye screws or screw eyes?

I always just called them 'eyes'.
Be sure to post pictures soon