a few questions for y'all

[thecugga]

whats crackin y'all??

ok, so im startin to put together a project studio of my own, and ive been doin my research (espeically on this site). now before i start buyin anything i wanna put what ive come up with on here as a final check before i start...hopefully someone can tell me what im doin right and what im not.

first of all i have no mics, mixer, nothing...ohya, and i'll be micing just drums, guitar, bass, and vocals for a more hardcore style band. i'll be recording onto my computer. and finally i can only afford 4 mics, so i gotta find 4 that'll do the trick for everything. and like always, money is an issue.

now my comptuer isnt that slick (P4 2.2 GHz but only 128 or 256 mb ram, cant remember) so ive decided to record one track at a time (ie stereo drum track) and then mix em all together at the end, because i dont know if my comp could even handle more than one track at a time ... trust me it sucks.
so ive decided to pick up an audiophile 2496 card for my comp

then an sm 57 for my snare which can also be used for guitar.

i can get a decent deal on a pair of studio projects b1 which i plan on using as overheads (these will be the only mics on my toms as well as cymbals) which can also be used for vocals.

i need one more dynamic mic (large diaphragm) that i can use for my kick drum, bass guitar, and also i want to mic the guitars with the 57 and then this other mic to give the guitars a heavier or thicker sound. (guitars are usually tuned down to drop c)
ive read that 57s work half decently for kick drum and bass...could i just buy a second one of those??? i DO want a punchy bass drum (check out as i lay dying - collision ... i love how the bass drum sounds) would a higher pitched mic like a 57 give me more of this sound than a mic focused all on low freq?

ohya and im gona buy a mackie 1202VLZ or a yamaha mg10/2 depending on the price i can get at the time.

how does this sound? am i doing anything terribly wrong?
will the b1's be able to pick up the toms well enough while still being able to pick up the cymbals?? will i be fine without a small diaphragm condenser on the cymbals??
what type of mic would u recommend for my kick, bass, and helping out on guitar. or should i just get another 57?
could i use a low pitched mic as well as the 57 for micing guitar, or should i stick with using only a 57?

sorry about this being such a long post but i have no skills as of yet ... in recording or posting ... i think i was on the right track tho
give me any advice you may have for me

thanks alot

[frederic]

Choosing equipment will be an interesting experience, you're going to get all sorts of advice that seemingly will disagree with each other, and that's okay, the replies you get come from different perspectives.

As far as I'm concerned, using SM-series mics is never a bad choice, they even work great for vocals in a pinch, so I don't think you're going in the wrong direction for what you're trying to achieve.

If you're recording one track at a time, obviously you'd lay down your drum mix first to give timing to all other musicians when it's their turn. And, you don't *need* to mic every drum, cymbal, tom on the kit either.

Using boom-style mic stands, you can put two mics over the kit, or somewhat in front of the kit, and record it in stereo that way. This cuts your mic count down from four, to two, and thus your cost. It will take you a while to get the appropriate placement for what you're trying to accomplish, but as always, spend less, invest more time, and it's a skill you should acquire anyway, so nothing is lost.

If you really want to use four mics on the kit... suspend two mikes from above to capture everything as above, toss one near the bass drum and one near the snare drum, then mix that down to stereo. Either way works, and the second method uses more mics, but placement of the mics is slightly less critical.

A Pentium 2.2Ghz is not that bad at all actually, and your success in recording multiple tracks has more to do with the degree of processing the recording hardware that goes into the PC will do. I believe the card you picked (2496) is sophisticated enough that you can record multiple tracks at the same time with your 2.2Ghz pc no problem... though you might want more memory if you're running Windows. 512Mb would be about right.

[Mach311]

Originally Posted by thecugga

now my comptuer isnt that slick (P4 2.2 GHz but only 128 or 256 mb ram, cant remember) so ive decided to record one track at a time (ie stereo drum track) and then mix em all together at the end, because i dont know if my comp could even handle more than one track at a time ... trust me it sucks.

That's a good processor, add more ram for sure. You pc probably sucks because of the way it's configured and/or lots of crap running in the background. I'd format the drive and install a clean version of xp only. If it's a Dell or some other big name pc it probably came with a "restore disc", the problem with these restore programs is they load all the other crap that dell wants you to use running in the background, you don't need that junk. Get your hands on a regular copy of xp, just load the OS and the patches. If you're going to be on the internet w/ this computer as well I'd look into some good firewall/anti-virus/spyware blocker software. I'm a 'puter tech and 80% of the performance complaints I get are due to spyware or virus. Personally I'm not gonna have my recording pc connected to the internet at all.

[DDev]

My studio PC is not much more than what you described but it runs great (I've mixed as many as 46 tracks with tons of plug-ins without a hiccup). There are a couple of tricks in configuring your PC that definitely help out, though, as previously mentioned.

1. Add more memory. 512Mb of RAM is almost a minimum to do anything serious with, and it doesn't really cost that much.

2. If you can swing it, get a second hard drive (as large as you can afford) and use it to store all of your audio data files. Run your programs from your main hard drive. What this does is it cuts down on the disk read/write activity on each drive so your drive heads aren't trying to figure out what the program is doing at the same time as they are trying to store or play back data. It really speeds up things quite a bit during tracking and mixing.

3. I echo the comment about not connecting your studio PC to the internet. My studio PC is just for the studio and only has on it the applications I run in the studio. Other applications plus all the garbage you collect over time from an online connection will degrade your performance if you are not really savvy in maintaining your PC.

As far as mics go, the 57 and a pair of B1's will work fine for almost everything you do. For low end stuff like kick drums and bass amps there are any number of ways you could go. I use a Shure Beta 52 and love the sounds I get. Shure has their lower end PG52 which would probably be good enough for starters with a lower price tag. There are others that often get recommended, like the AKG D112. That should give you enough to get some decent sounds and be stuff you'll be able to keep in your locker as you get more money and experience.

Good luck,
Darryl.....

[thecugga]

Thanks alot for the help

About the comp. I know 2.2 Ghz is alot but its just NEVER functioned well. Shitty components or something? Its a future shop brand (cicero) and it didnt even come with any garbage like i know compacs and dells would have on them. Plus I have norton 2005 IS and ad-aware and ive removed every peice of spyware I can find, even in the registries. Im hoping more ram will speed it up. Also, the video card is integrated into the ram so that takes it down to like 96 mb or so which is brutal. Im realizing ram is really the problem now that im writing it down

Also, I found an AKG D112 for only 100$. He says it functions like new so i gotta believe him. So i think thats the 4th mic i'll pick up

thanks again

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Cugga! You are doing OK for a low budget plan. You've already got good advice on the computer. Yes- 512mb of RAM. The D112 is OK- Good for kick, good for bass cabs, even good for some vocalists, and that's a good price. With that, an SM57, and the 2 B-1's, you are in pretty good shape. I prefer Sennheiser e835 to the SM57, and you can find them cheaper, but that's just my opinion. I like the Yamaha mixer. Overall, for someone on a tight budget, your plan is one of the best thought out ones I've seen in a while. Good job, and good luck.-Richie

[thecugga]

this is gonna be a dumb question but i might as well make sure...i got a a chance to buy a mackie 1202 for 125$. now its listed just as a mackie 1202. is there a mackie 1202 and then a mackie 1202VLZ or was this guy just too lazy to write VLZ??? cause 125$ is pretty cheap, which is why it made me think ... but maybe its just a decent deal??

thanks

[DDev]

There is a 1202 model that preceded the 1202 VLZ. I think the main difference is with the mic preamps, with the VLZ being a higher quality. But for starters, for the money that should be a decent mixer.

Darryl.....

[thecugga]

yaaaaa right, and i thought i was just bein stupid so i went ahead and already purchased it. now am feeling like i ****ed up and my recordings are all going to sound slightly worse. although i am definitely still a beginner, maybe it wont make a difference.

is this gonna be a bad thing accidentally buying the older mackie 1202?? or is this still a quality mixer and i should be happy with the purchase??

and by the way, thanks for all the help from you guys so far!

[Richard Monroe]

Stop agonizing about the gear and just record stuff. The quest for pro quality sound will never stop, and if you stick with it, it will suck thousands out of your wallet. In the end, it will all be worth it. Right now. having some kind of rig to start your learning curve is more important than what mixer you bought for $120. In the end, you're liable to sell that mixer for $121, and buy that Neve console for $15,000. In the greater scheme of things, it's no big deal. Right now, the only big geal is- you have a mixer.- Richie

[thecugga]

haha ok ok ... ive got decent enough shit on the way, and i'll stop worrying about that. now all i need is a decent kick drum mic and i'll be on my way. once i find that i'll be outta here til ive recorded some shit

check out this audio-technica pro25:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT
is this a good deal? it looks like its been through alot, could that be a problem?

or should i just go for a new shure beta52 for like 10$ more?

note that i play alot of double kick and would probably want a quicker, punchier sounding bass drum that a big boomy soudning one.

thanks

[thecugga]

and sorry ... not a shure beta52 ... a shure pg52

[Richard Monroe]

Well, a decent dynamic mic is hard to kill, but it looks like the owner of that baby took his best shot at it. It might work fine, but neither I nor you have any way of knowing that. That mic has been seriously abused.-Richie

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by Richard Monroe

Stop agonizing about the gear and just record stuff. The quest for pro quality sound will never stop, and if you stick with it, it will suck thousands out of your wallet. In the end, it will all be worth it. Right now. having some kind of rig to start your learning curve is more important than what mixer you bought for $120. In the end, you're liable to sell that mixer for $121, and buy that Neve console for $15,000. In the greater scheme of things, it's no big deal. Right now, the only big geal is- you have a mixer.- Richie

That might just be one of the best posts I've read here.

Thecugga - Enjoy your new hobby, keep your wallet safe and always think twice before making any purchase. Oh, and make sure you spend at least twice as much time recording as you do posting on any forums ... now, I just need to take that advice for myself ...