Frippertronics

[walters]

Frippertronics uses a reel of tape on one reel-to-reel and records on that machine - the tape runs out to a take-up reel on a second reel-to-reel instead of on the first deck, and the signal is played back on the second deck and also can be looped back and mixed into the electronic inputs on the first unit. This creates a degenerative delay, which with level control on the "feedback" signal can be used to sustain a repeating "loop" or to let it decay into the tape hiss and infinity.

RF: Yes. I record on the left machine, the guitar is recorded on the left
machine, the signal passes along the tape to the right machine where it's
played back to the left machine and recorded a second time.

How do i do this Frippertronics on my DAW with a Mixer to feedback loop it ?
to get sound on sound layering like this?

[ez_willis]

Originally Posted by walters

Frippertronics uses a reel of tape on one reel-to-reel and records on that machine - the tape runs out to a take-up reel on a second reel-to-reel instead of on the first deck, and the signal is played back on the second deck and also can be looped back and mixed into the electronic inputs on the first unit. This creates a degenerative delay, which with level control on the "feedback" signal can be used to sustain a repeating "loop" or to let it decay into the tape hiss and infinity.

RF: Yes. I record on the left machine, the guitar is recorded on the left
machine, the signal passes along the tape to the right machine where it's
played back to the left machine and recorded a second time.

How do i do this Frippertronics on my DAW with a Mixer to feedback loop it ?
to get sound on sound layering like this?

The frist thingy you want to do is flipper the tronics to make right flip be left flip. After right flip is left flip, and left flip is now being right flip, stack one sounds on other to make for more sound layering, thats how sound layering begin. After sound layering multitrack tracks from first flip to second flip, wait 15 minutes before proceeding to next flip, that's where you get the delay from, hence the name delay soundlayering multi track flippertronics inputs.
Got all that? I could put it into essay form for you if you like? Thank many lots for other nothings.

[EddieRay]

I think someone would have to develop a DSP effect to emulate that analog tape process.

[ez_willis]

....oh, I forgot to mention 1 thingy, Ghost of FM asked that you please post the next question in the analog forum, he said he'd be happy to help you out over there! Tell him I sent you for in-line cutsies.

[Rokket]

I'll just keep recording my farts and polishing my turds. These posts make my head hurt...

[usernamebob]

http://www.uv.es/~ruizcan/p_vst.htm

theres a free vst plugin that emulates this effect on that site

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by ez_willis

....oh, I forgot to mention 1 thingy, Ghost of FM asked that you please post the next question in the analog forum, he said he'd be happy to help you out over there! Tell him I sent you for in-line cutsies.

I'll get you for that one!

You and your little dog too!

[boingoman]

Originally Posted by walters

Frippertronics uses a reel of tape on one reel-to-reel and records on that machine - the tape runs out to a take-up reel on a second reel-to-reel instead of on the first deck, and the signal is played back on the second deck and also can be looped back and mixed into the electronic inputs on the first unit. This creates a degenerative delay, which with level control on the "feedback" signal can be used to sustain a repeating "loop" or to let it decay into the tape hiss and infinity.

RF: Yes. I record on the left machine, the guitar is recorded on the left
machine, the signal passes along the tape to the right machine where it's
played back to the left machine and recorded a second time.

How do i do this Frippertronics on my DAW with a Mixer to feedback loop it ?
to get sound on sound layering like this?

LOL. I knew it was you, walters, when I saw the word Frippertronics.
I suppose if you really wanted to you could try to do it with your DAW and a tape deck, or at least get somewhere in the ball park. Get one tape deck and use your DAW as the other.

ps- I have a mid-90s Aiwa boombox that does this. You can get five or six tracks on it before it becomes unusable.

[bennychico11]

isn't this just what is known as Tape Delay? people did that for years.

http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_overview.shtml

[Blue Bear Sound]

WALTERS.......

Seriously -- gardening -- fresh air -- sun-in-your-face -- would do you a world of good! Just stay the fuck away from recording gear..............

[Henri Devill]

Do it like that[Robert Fripp]..mic it up thru a guit amp and record it..and their you go!I don't think a digital recording device is gonna "degade properly" for that sound on sound/looping.Even bucket brigade analog solidstate isn't quite the same

[Dogman]

Walters, walters, walters. You silly boy. I will help you on this one.

Frippertronics




Andre LaFosse contributes this fine article on Frippertronics, the system used by Robert Fripp in his pioneering forays into looping. Enjoy...




Frippertronics/Soundscaping

The process known as Frippertronics originated when Brian Eno demonstrated a tape-loop system (wherein a single reel of tape is actually physically joined together at the ends and then run continuously between the outermost reels of two adjacent decks, the first of which records incoming sound and the second of which plays it back) based around two reel-to-reel Revox decks to Robert Fripp. (According to the liner notes for Fripp's 1994 solo album 1999, a mechanical diagram of this process graces the cover of Brian Eno's Discreet Music.)

In a 1979 interview conducted by Ron Gaskin (which is, incidentally, one of the most illuminating and amusing Fripp interviews I've run across, and which is available on the Elephant Talk Web archive), Fripp describes the mechanics as follows:




RG: Could you simply explain the process of Frippertronics?

RF: Yes. I record on the left machine, the guitar is recorded on the left
machine, the signal passes along the tape to the right machine where it's
played back to the left machine and recorded a second time.

RG: OK.

RF: The signal recorded the second time passes along the tape to the right
machine where it's played back a second time and recorded a third.

RG: And at what point is it released into the room?

RF: Oh, straightaway. Unless, what I could do if I wanted to be crafty,
would be to build up a chord which no one could hear and then turn the
chord on, but, in fact, that doesn't happen. I've only done that, I think,
on a couple of occasions. You hear it happening.


The track "The Heavenly Music Corporation" from the Fripp/Eno album No Pussyfooting is, in fact, a document of the very first time Fripp was exposed to looping. Though the album was released in 1973, word has it that the actual recording took place in 1971 and was delayed for two years by Eno's record company, on the grounds that association with Fripp could be detrimental to the former's career. Fripp allegedly coined the term for his own use of the system chiefly because, as he put it in Eric Tamm's book, "it was a silly name."

(It should be noted that, to my knowledge, Eno was not in fact the first person to develop this type of tape loop system; though I am unsure as to exactly who can lay claim to the origination of the process, I am under the impression that Terry Riley and Steve Reich both did work with tape loops which preceeded the advent of Eno's work, albiet of a somewhat different mechanical and sonic nature).

The first recorded evidence of Frippertronics of which I am aware is the album Exposure, which was the first release by Fripp following the end of his mid-'70s retreat from the music scene (and holds the additional distinction of being one of the most thoroughly bizarre recordings I've ever run across). The Frippertronics effect is scattered throughout the record, and is probably most readilly identifiable in the piece "Water Music 1" which serves as a prelude to "Here Comes The Flood."

The "Exposure Non-Tour" which followed the release of the record consisted of a series of solo Frippertronics performances held in a variety of atypical venues, including pizza parlors and barber shops (the latter of which apparently served as the impetus for so-called "Barbertronics," wherin Frippertronics provided the soundtrack for hair-cutting).

Fripp's comments in the 1979 Gaskin interview go on to describe the unorthodox nature of the music, and the atypical expectations it placed on the audience; from a modern perspective, these are highly interesting and valuable insights, as they provide firsthand evidence of some of the first public performances of "ambient" music.

A document of solo Frippertronics performances was released in the '80s under the title Let The Power Fall. One detail of this recording of note is that the recordings on this album are not of the entire performances, but only of the portions of the music which were printed to the tape loop itself. Apparently Fripp would commonly solo over the loop in the background; this aspect of the performance, not being put into the loop, was subsequently not present on the final record.

Frippertronics was employed throughout Fripp's public work in the early '80s, after which he left the performance scene and formed the Guitar Craft network of clinics. Upon his return to the music industry in the early '90s, his use of looping became considerably more complex in both mechanics and result; a pair of T.C. Electronics digital delays replaced the Revox tape decks, and the use of MIDI guitar was far more prominent than it had been in the '80s. (Fripp eventually added other looping gear, including the Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro, to his setup). Owing to the substantially different nature of the methodology and sound of this process, Fripp dubbed his '90s version of looping as Soundscaping.

Considerably more complex than Frippertronics, Soundscaping has provided the entirety of the music on the albums 1999, A Blessing Of Tears, Radiophonics, Soundbites, and The Gates Of Paradise, all of which are live direct-to-DAT solo performance recordings. It is also present on numerous other Fripp-related projects from the early '90s, including the work of King Crimson and other artists. The earliest versions of Soundscapes can likely be found the 1993 Sylvian/Fripp album The First Day, which is scattered with the technique and which features what appears to be a Soundscape solo piece in the form of "Bringing Down The Light."

[This is by no means an all-inclusive overview of Frippertronics, and I encourage anyone else to offer additions or corrections to the information I've presented here. I also encourage all interested readers to investigate the aforementioned 1979 interview in its entirety for more information on Frippertronics theory and philosophy.}

--Andre LaFosse


And, it's in English, not Portugese this time.
You are wlcome.
Ed

[walters]

Thats is sound on sound/looping?

How do i do this sound on sound/ looping effect?


sound on sound i need a mixer to combine the input with the output

but the LOOPing part i need a feeback path for it to loop

Frippertronics: "is Sound on sound PLUS Looping"

how do i do this with a mixer and a feedback path with my DAW?


Frippertronics: got sound on sound by recording on (2) decks at
8 to 10 second difference

Loop: feedback the sound on sound signal

Will i need (2) DAW to do this "sound on sound Plus Looping" effect?

[Dogman]

You will need 3 DAWS.

[Halion]

I'm getting the feeling he's nothing more than a bot programmed by an audio freak with a mental dissorder.

[snow lizard]

Dogman, that was a great post.

I think in the '70's, Fripp also used some kind of modified early incarnation of e-bow to create some of his effects. Apparently the Fernandez Susutainer is a similar, but more flexable device capable of different types of effects, more like a pickup than a handheld device. Of course this has nothing to do with tape loops.

I'm amazed that you posted an Andre LaFosse article on Robert Fripp - Andre's own music has obvious nods to Fripp, as well as David Torn but he makes it his own. The centerpiece of his setup is the digital Echoplex - he's actually emailed the Echoplex people several times asking them how to control certain features. They have responded that what Andre came up with weren't features at all, but unintended glitches. The software engineers were intrigued by Andre's requests, so they've worked together to improve some of these glitches into fully supported sets of extended features. Several times.

Plus, Andre can fucking play. His debut CD, Disruption Theory, is unlike anything I've ever heard. It's like techno-shred or something - very hard to describe and very unusual, but it grooves like a mofo. This is one of my top 3 favorite CD purchases of the last year. Given that a lot of it sounds like it was done with synths or loops, a good bulk of what he's done is from his hands on a guitar, through an echoplex, into an amp. That's it. And he does it live.

(ok, I'll step down from the soap box now...)


sl

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Halion

I'm getting the feeling he's nothing more than a bot programmed by an audio freak with a mental dissorder.

Walters, what Halion means is you will need 4 Daws. I was misstaken. Thanks for the correction, Halion. I was thinking of the creamy, milky compressor technique.
Ed

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by snow lizard

Dogman, that was a great post.

I think in the '70's, Fripp also used some kind of modified early incarnation of e-bow to create some of his effects. Apparently the Fernandez Susutainer is a similar, but more flexable device capable of different types of effects, more like a pickup than a handheld device. Of course this has nothing to do with tape loops.

I'm amazed that you posted an Andre LaFosse article on Robert Fripp - Andre's own music has obvious nods to Fripp, as well as David Torn but he makes it his own. The centerpiece of his setup is the digital Echoplex - he's actually emailed the Echoplex people several times asking them how to control certain features. They have responded that what Andre came up with weren't features at all, but unintended glitches. The software engineers were intrigued by Andre's requests, so they've worked together to improve some of these glitches into fully supported sets of extended features. Several times.

Plus, Andre can fucking play. His debut CD, Disruption Theory, is unlike anything I've ever heard. It's like techno-shred or something - very hard to describe and very unusual, but it grooves like a mofo. This is one of my top 3 favorite CD purchases of the last year. Given that a lot of it sounds like it was done with synths or loops, a good bulk of what he's done is from his hands on a guitar, through an echoplex, into an amp. That's it. And he does it live.

(ok, I'll step down from the soap box now...)


sl

Just trying to help our little friend, walters here. Most of his stuff is above my head, but i figured I'd find some info for him this time.
Ed

PS. and I posted it in English this time. Walters need to thank me.

[ez_willis]

Have you tried the FripperSim Plugin wally? It might be just what you're looking for.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by ez_willis

Have you tried the FripperSim Plugin wally? It might be just what you're looking for.

Not unless it also does multitrack layering of sound-on-sound, unsquashed without smearing using Daisy Chain Bussing, advanced BPM techniques and morphing automation?

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Why do you people keep feeding the children?

There is no Walters.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Why do you people keep feeding the children?

There is no Walters.

Ya think????

[ez_willis]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Why do you people keep feeding the children?

There is no Walters.

No walters?, impossible! I'm starting to think that walters has been the single most influential audio bbs user in the history of the audio bbs. Who has impacted all of the audio related forums more than anyone else of the last 5 years? Harvey Gerst, I don't think so, walters! Who is the most recognizable name in pro audio today, walters! Who is the most sought after producer/engineer of a generation? That may be stretching it a bit.


verse
walters is you.
walters is me.
walters is everywhere,
we used to be.

chorus
Who's got the Frippertronics?
Who's got the BPM's?
Who'll ride the plate tektoniks?
Who's weapon is his pen?

verse
Doppler automation
Sound on sound, layered multitrack
We live in walters nation
Coloured preamps in his rack..............

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Not unless it also does multitrack layering of sound-on-sound, unsquashed without smearing using Daisy Chain Bussing, advanced BPM techniques and morphing automation?

Bruce, you also forgot how creamy and milky it needs to be.
Ed

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Why do you people keep feeding the children?

There is no Walters.

The children are starving. Even walters deserves to eat.