Panning when micing acoustic with 1 mic

[Elmo89m]

until i get my 603s im micing my acoustic with my v67g...where should i pan...center..but wont it get int the way of vocals.

[ghettorig]

I'm assuming that the acoustic has a very important role in the song? If you pan it too much on one side, the stereo image will be "unbalanced". I suggest duplicating the track so that you can have a stereo guitar track. Then, you can experiment with panning and still keep the stereo image in tact.

[Elmo89m]

i thought duplicating the same track and panning doesnt really give you stereo....just +3db? yes it is just acoustic and vox

[ghettorig]

You're right, it's not a true stero image of the guitar (because you're only using 1 mic), but it sounds better to me than just having a single guitar track in the middle.

As for the volume increase, you'll just adjust that in the mix. I group the guitar tracks together so the volume is the same on both tracks. Again, this is when I want the left or right channel to have equal levels of the guitar.

[Elmo89m]

but if its not a true stereo image then it wont help me in terms of making room for vox

[olfunk]

or if you can be bothered, record it again and use both tracks, panning each hard left and right, or however sounds good to you. thats if thats a possibility.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by ghettorig

You're right, it's not a true stero image of the guitar (because you're only using 1 mic), but it sounds better to me than just having a single guitar track in the middle.

Is that because it sounds louder?

[Elmo89m]

haha...thank you chess....i know you know this stuff so if you could tell me that'd be great

[AGCurry]

Generally, if your project consists of one acoustic guitar and one voice, both will be in the center. Don't worry about "making room" - guitar and voice are different enough so it's not a problem. This approach has worked for hundreds - thousands? - of singer/guitarists.

[Elmo89m]

okay...i beleive you their....but dont most "good" recorders (for lack of a better word) use a matched pair and record XY in stereo?

[AGCurry]

Originally Posted by Elmo89m

okay...i beleive you their....but dont most "good" recorders (for lack of a better word) use a matched pair and record XY in stereo?

Many do. But if you don't have a pair, you're recording in mono. I would not pan an acoustic guitar if it were my only instrument.

[Elmo89m]

okay...i just thought you were saying that most people record acoustic with one mic

[earworm]

i also record accoustic guitar with one mic,
but i try to record the same part twice, isn't always easy,
if it works, pan "part 1 " left, "part2" right

if u only record one track, then i still suggest you duplicate the track and pan L+R, play with how hard you pan, and i guess its not a bad idea to try to put a few milliseconds of delay on one side...

my 2 cents

[Farview]

Originally Posted by earworm

i also record accoustic guitar with one mic,
but i try to record the same part twice, isn't always easy,
if it works, pan "part 1 " left, "part2" right

if u only record one track, then i still suggest you duplicate the track and pan L+R, play with how hard you pan, and i guess its not a bad idea to try to put a few milliseconds of delay on one side...

my 2 cents

don't bother with this, it does nothing.

Put a different reverb on the guitar than on the vocal. This will separate them. Don't make it a drastic difference, I would use a similar reverb with the decay time shorter on the vocal than on the guitar.

[bennychico11]

also, if you hear the vocals and the guitar fighting over a certain frequency area....find that frequency and give it a little negative dB on one of the tracks (probably better if you did it to the guitar instead of the vocals). This way they won't fight as much in that area.

[Elmo89m]

thanks benny chico....thats what i was thinking yesterday...but i didnt have the time to find the frequency

[dmbpettit]

Say you have a single guitar track in mono. If you pan it in the middle, it comes out of the left and the right. No if you copy the track and pan you left and one right, are not just creating the same thing as if you just had the one track pan in the center?

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by dmbpettit

Say you have a single guitar track in mono. If you pan it in the middle, it comes out of the left and the right. No if you copy the track and pan you left and one right, are not just creating the same thing as if you just had the one track pan in the center?

yes, and 3dB louder. try it and you'll see.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by dmbpettit

Say you have a single guitar track in mono. If you pan it in the middle, it comes out of the left and the right. No if you copy the track and pan you left and one right, are not just creating the same thing as if you just had the one track pan in the center?

since there is no center speaker in stereo, center panning puts the same thing equally in both speakers. If you clone a track, and pan them so the same signal is in both speakers equally, you have just spent 5 minutes creating what you had in the first place...Mono!
In order to have stereo, you need something different in both speakers.

[dmbpettit]

would an example of having something different in the left and right be just eq each differently or add reverb to one side?

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by dmbpettit

would an example of having something different in the left and right be just eq each differently or add reverb to one side?

well, yeah, technically that would make the two channels different now...but it wouldn't make it a stereo signal. The original source would still be mono. You've just created an effect to manipulate the mono sound coming from the two speakers. If you want a true stereo image, you need to record a stereo image.

[dmbpettit]

To do this I would need to record with 2 mics, but do they have to be the same mic? How about micing my amp and using its direct outs. Could I pan these opposite of each other and have it me true stereo?

[diogo]

Originally Posted by Farview

don't bother with this, it does nothing.

Put a different reverb on the guitar than on the vocal. This will separate them. Don't make it a drastic difference, I would use a similar reverb with the decay time shorter on the vocal than on the guitar.

totally with Fairview on this, but if u really wanna double the same track, try adding a little delay to one of the tracks or something, really subtle, and pan both tracks considerably but not totally hard left/right. works for me. or adding some reverb to one track and a little less to the other and panning hard...try different stuff.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by dmbpettit

To do this I would need to record with 2 mics, but do they have to be the same mic? How about micing my amp and using its direct outs. Could I pan these opposite of each other and have it me true stereo?

stereo=two sources. whether it be two different channels or two different sounds. when you play your electric guitar through an amp do you hear two different sounds coming from the speaker? your electric guitar is a mono instrument. you only have one jack on it sending one signal to an amp.

the reason acoustic guitars are sometimes recorded with two mics is because the acoustic guitar has different sounds in two places. engineers discovered that if you mic around the 12th fret you can capture more of the highs of the instrument while micing the body you get more boominess of the lows and the resonance of the body. when you're recording think first if the instrument produces two different sounds in two different places. If so, should you try and record both those sources?

Now, recording with two mics does not necessarily make it stereo. When an engineers uses two mics on a snare (top and bottom) he'll probably put both snares in the same spot in the stereo field. Panning the hard left and hard right will confuse the listener..."why does the snare sound different in the left than the right??"
If you run a DI guitar signal into your mixer and also mic the amp, you want to experiment, but you may find blending the amped signal with the DI signal in the same spot in the stereo field will give you better sounding results than panning them hard L/R.

there are no set rules, but these are ones that engineers find listeners have been accustomed too. And if the listener is annoyed at how the guitars or snare sound, all your work has gone to shit.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by diogo

totally with Fairview on this, but if u really wanna double the same track, try adding a little delay to one of the tracks or something, really subtle, and pan both tracks considerably but not totally hard left/right. works for me. or adding some reverb to one track and a little less to the other and panning hard...try different stuff.

Is it really that much trouble to play it again? It is worth the extra 5 minutes of work.