buddy rich tricks

[capnkid]

I was at drummerworld.com and caught Jo Jo mayer showing the crowd how to do the push pull super fast bell action thingy. To practice this, could I just get a cymbal and start? And should I go with thinner sticks or what feels comfortable. How do they size sticks?
Also with the peddle trick where you make a single kick sound like a double kick by using heel and toe, is a special peddle needed? thanx.

[Enrique]

Originally Posted by capnkid

Also with the peddle trick where you make a single kick sound like a double kick by using heel and toe, is a special peddle needed? thanx.

There is the Sonor Giant Step that uses heel and toe.

[capnkid]

This trick must use a regular pedal if buddy rich was doing it.

[fldrummer]

I haven't seen the clip in a while but I'm pretty sure he uses a normal single pedal with some heel/toe action.

I've seen Thomas Lang use the Sonor Giant Step on a clave and that was just sick!

That little one hand stick trick isn't as easy as it looks. Jonny Rabb does a trick kind of like that using the rim of the drum. I think he even does it on the roland v-drum demo on rolands web site.

Also some drum corps guys do it like Jonny does. I haven't figured out how to do it the Buddy way yet. I think you really have to build up your finger chops and independence.

I have a clinic video of JoJo and this guy is just off the chain!

Good Luck!

[Tim Brown]

The singlehanded roll isn't hard. Jojo Mayer refers to it as a "push pull". You hold the stick in the traditional grip, and then move it back and forth between the middle and ring finger. I learned how to do it about 5 or 6 years ago. Unless you've been playing Traditional grip for years, it is going to take you a little while to build up the strength in your fingers to really be able to manipulate the stick.

Heel-Toe technique came about from Heel Down players trying to go faster on a Ludwig Speedking. The Speedking has the "moving heel plate" on it; if you lock the heel plate in place, you can get heel strokes out of the pedal.

The Axis pedal is based in the Ludwig Speedking - which is why most "chain and sprocket" players don't like the Axis pedal, but those of us who came up playing "strap-drive" or Speedking pedals love them.


Neither of these are really "tricks", but really forgotten techniques.

The "Singlehanded roll" is a brush technique applied to the sticks; when players started playing rock music and quit using the Traditional grip, these techniques sort of became lost. All of the old timers could play this way - it's just that Buddy Rich had been playing since he could almost walk, so he spent years and years perfecting the traditional grip.

I made a crappy little video about how to do a one-handed roll.
Keep in mind that this was made using a "webcam". A few months ago I bought a digital Camcorder, so I need to make a new video to put online.


I pulled the link because my server was getting a lot of traffic.




Tim

[drummerdude666]

I learnt that one handed roll technique a few months ago. My drum teacher and I havent come across anyone else who can do it...until you! sod. nicking my special tricks...

lol. Another way of doing a single handed roll is the John Blackwell technique, and i think he learnt it from...i think.... Billy Cobham. My drum teacher and Billy we're some of the only people who could do it until John Blackwell has shown the world how do do it on his new DVD.

it involves resting the stick on the rim halfway up the stick. Then using a see-saw action up and down creating doubles and also buzz shots. you count it as quarter notes down so you can keep it in time but its bounces freely.

Another way is to rest the stick so half is sticking off the snare drum, and its resting on the rim. then putting your thumb over the top of the stickand your hand wrapped around the drum (this is with your left hand). Then with your right stick you hit the left stick. Depending of the pressure you apply with your left thumb depends of the frequency of the bounces, the higher the pressure the more bounces. But too much pressure will kill it.

On the topic of tricks. A nice way to get the sound of a rim shot is to place either sticks tip in the center of the snare drum and you hold the stick normally (so the stick is at about a 45 degree angle from the skin of the drum). Then with the opposite hand you hit the stick that is on the drum. This creates a noise very similar to a rim shot. Great for soloing.

I've just told you a lot of tricks that you dont see anybody use these days! You guys owe me! lol

any more questions just ask.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by drummerdude666

I learnt that one handed roll technique a few months ago. My drum teacher and I havent come across anyone else who can do it...until you! sod. nicking my special tricks...

lol. Another way of doing a single handed roll is the John Blackwell technique, and i think he learnt it from...i think.... Billy Cobham. My drum teacher and Billy we're some of the only people who could do it until John Blackwell has shown the world how do do it on his new DVD.

it involves resting the stick on the rim halfway up the stick. Then using a see-saw action up and down creating doubles and also buzz shots. you count it as quarter notes down so you can keep it in time but its bounces freely.

Another way is to rest the stick so half is sticking off the snare drum, and its resting on the rim. then putting your thumb over the top of the stickand your hand wrapped around the drum (this is with your left hand). Then with your right stick you hit the left stick. Depending of the pressure you apply with your left thumb depends of the frequency of the bounces, the higher the pressure the more bounces. But too much pressure will kill it.

On the topic of tricks. A nice way to get the sound of a rim shot is to place either sticks tip in the center of the snare drum and you hold the stick normally (so the stick is at about a 45 degree angle from the skin of the drum). Then with the opposite hand you hit the stick that is on the drum. This creates a noise very similar to a rim shot. Great for soloing.

I've just told you a lot of tricks that you dont see anybody use these days! You guys owe me! lol

any more questions just ask.

What you're describing is called a Rim Press Roll.
Johnny Rabb's been doing the Rim Press for years; there is a video online of him doing that.

Those are all old Jazz techniques.

As for playing on the stick, you don't have to hold it on the Rim. Jeff Queen has a video at Vic firth's website that shows how to do it just with your hand and the rim, but it doesn't have the rimshot sound to it.

You can buy a video from Ballstic Bassdrums for $35 showing you how to do the one handed roll like I was doing....but I've worked on it to the point where I can do it like Buddy Rich, and can do it with both hands at the same time. A student of Jim Chapin, named Jon Matthews said Jim Chapin had taught some of his more advanced students how to do the one handed roll; since most of the "old timers" who were known for doing it had already died - he passed it on to some of the younger guys, and Jon Matthews made a video and sent it to Joe Stronsick of Ballistic Bassdrums.


Tim

[drummerdude666]

Ahh.. i hope you realise i am now going to be practicing the 'push pull' until i can do it
a) with both hands, my right is slower than left.
b) play it so i can keep it in time.

Its going to take me ages.

I haven't heard of Jon Matthews, who's he played with? or is he just a small time pupil of Jims?

I'm in the process of recording lots of the old school tricks. I teach drums (even though i'm only 16, but i've been playing for most of my life), and i've found that recording tricks and lessons allows the pupils to go home and watch again the things i've taught.

This doesnt replace being there learing it. and i would never encourage somebody to learn drums online. But it does help along with the lessons.

Tim Brown - Any videos you have, I'd appriciate if you could link me to any or send me some, save me the time of recording some. Nice to meet drummers you dont ignore their heritage, and you listen to the old greats.

We could have a website containing them all... Just an idea.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by drummerdude666

Ahh.. i hope you realise i am now going to be practicing the 'push pull' until i can do it
a) with both hands, my right is slower than left.
b) play it so i can keep it in time.

Its going to take me ages.

I haven't heard of Jon Matthews, who's he played with? or is he just a small time pupil of Jims?

I'm in the process of recording lots of the old school tricks. I teach drums (even though i'm only 16, but i've been playing for most of my life), and i've found that recording tricks and lessons allows the pupils to go home and watch again the things i've taught.

This doesnt replace being there learing it. and i would never encourage somebody to learn drums online. But it does help along with the lessons.

Tim Brown - Any videos you have, I'd appriciate if you could link me to any or send me some, save me the time of recording some. Nice to meet drummers you dont ignore their heritage, and you listen to the old greats.

We could have a website containing them all... Just an idea.

Jon Matthews I just a player like any of us, but he's got one hell of a left hand - let me tell you that! He has the stick flying man, and with a ton of power.

That is the only video I have made. I haven't really had the time or place to make one because we're in the process of moving.


Tim

[MadAudio]

To really imitate Buddy, you'll need to do some blow and then cuss out your band after the gig!

[drummerdude666]

Mad Audio - I dont think anybody here is trying to imitate buddy. You'd be doomed to fail...and i dont like failing.

[MadAudio]

Whoops, I forgot to add the so you'd know it was a JOKE!

[drummerdude666]

hahahahahah! i was woundering! lol.

[capnkid]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

To really imitate Buddy, you'll need to do some blow and then cuss out your band after the gig!

Yeah, I like the way he makes his band watch his solo's. If you watch some of the video's, his band looks forced to watch.

[MadAudio]

I have a cassette with two instances of Buddy screaming at his band on the tour bus after gigs. I would have hated to been the recipient of one of those tongue-lashings!

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

I have a cassette with two instances of Buddy screaming at his band on the tour bus after gigs. I would have hated to been the recipient of one of those tongue-lashings!

And yet no one got my Buddy Rich joke in the joke thread!

[Enrique]

Originally Posted by capnkid

This trick must use a regular pedal if buddy rich was doing it.

Oh ya, I forgot what the whole topic was about... doh!

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

I have a cassette with two instances of Buddy screaming at his band on the tour bus after gigs. I would have hated to been the recipient of one of those tongue-lashings!

Mister! I AM the band!

I have the double-CD set that those came off of. It also has Orson Welles ripping a Sound Engineer. He's reading the script for a Jolly Green Giant commercial and he's lie "Who wrote this sh!t?" or something like that. You'd have to hear it. MY brother got me the CD set about 10 years ago.

We were going to take the Orson Welles part and use it as in a song making fun of the Manowar Song "Defender" (which Orson Welles worked on right before his death.)



Tim

[RezN8]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

And yet no one got my Buddy Rich joke in the joke thread!

I got yer joke but I'd just heard it so many times before.

Back in the 80s, I heard the tapes of Buddy ripping his band a new one. Then I met a few of his band members after Buddy passed away. I told them I thought Buddy was being a "little hard on them", but then realized it was probably due to the fact that he had a brain tumor, and who knows what else, after being exposed to a blaring horn section for so long we'd ALL turn in to raving lunatics.

They said "in all fairness to Buddy, some of us deserved the tongue lashing." "Buddy gave his all and it was easy for us to get sloppy after being on the road for so long."

I learned a lot that day. Protect your hearing kids. Things aren't always what they seem.

[fldrummer]

About his attitude... I talked to his bass player before and he said a lot of the guys where just really young extremely talented guys. Almost like to good for them selves. I'm not sure but I can say if they would have been more professional Buddy would have been....

[funkdrmr]

Originally Posted by capnkid

Yeah, I like the way he makes his band watch his solo's. If you watch some of the video's, his band looks forced to watch.

Funny this was brought up. In high school, I attended a jazz clinic (Bands of America??) at Illinois St. University. One of the clinicians was a piano player (can't remember his name) who had played with Buddy.

When he would watch buddy during his solos (yes, it was ALWAYS required), the horn section would make faces at him during rehearsals. They could get away with this, as they were behind Buddy, but in direct site of the piano player. One time they got him snickering in the middle of a solo, so Buddy stopped & threw his sticks at him and proceeded to tear him down something awful.

[drummerdude666]

hahahaha rep for you!