Kick too boomy when recording

[errr314]

OK ... this is driving me nuts. I have a 22" Yamaha Stage Custom kick with a new remo powerstroke 4 batter head. The resonant is a remo with a 4" hole in it. I also have an Evans Gate eq (reallly just a little pillow) in the drum as well. When I record it sounds just too boomy. I am not looking for the clicky Metallica sound but just a quick attack without all of the boomyness. I have tuned the heads both loosely and semi tight but I just cant get it right. Is there any suggestions for tuning the bass heads (both batter and resonant) so that I can get the quick punchy sound without the boom? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by errr314

OK ... this is driving me nuts. I have a 22" Yamaha Stage Custom kick with a new remo powerstroke 4 batter head. The resonant is a remo with a 4" hole in it. I also have an Evans Gate eq (reallly just a little pillow) in the drum as well. When I record it sounds just too boomy. I am not looking for the clicky Metallica sound but just a quick attack without all of the boomyness. I have tuned the heads both loosely and semi tight but I just cant get it right. Is there any suggestions for tuning the bass heads (both batter and resonant) so that I can get the quick punchy sound without the boom? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

What kind of quick Punchy sound?

A lot of the kicks that are associated with most pop (meaning virtually anything on the radio) recordings are single-headed with quite a bit of muffling in them.


Tim

[S Adamson]

what is your mic/placement?

-i hate to say it, but more stuffing will probably help.
-try taping over the hole in the reso head, just a couple stips of duct tape to seal it.
-consider room placement(stay away from corners)

[errr314]

Thanks Tim! Yes I am talking about the vast majority of the kick that is recorded. I am going to take the front head off right now. I guess I really need to add more muffle to it too. Cool. I will try it.

[errr314]

I have the mic about 2 or 3" from the batter head inside the drum. I am using the plastic sides of my beaters. Hey in a super muffling situation with only one head... should the batter head be loose or tight?

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by errr314

I have the mic about 2 or 3" from the batter head inside the drum. I am using the plastic sides of my beaters. Hey in a super muffling situation with only one head... should the batter head be loose or tight?

I think this might be your problem. Your mic is probably too close to the batter head. I hardly use any muffling at all in my kick and I don't get that boomy-ness. Drummers who are new to recording often put the mics too close to the drums.

[errr314]

Ahhh... Philgood. I think I have posted 3 times? And on this site and you have responded to every one. Thanks.

I have already removed the front head. I put more muffling in. And now I am going to move the mic back a tad (per your advice). Preparing to record. Beam me up Scotty.

[errr314]

Whoops .. this is my 7th post. Wow ... I am a vulture.

[Bdrum]

I went from plastic to wood beaters...
What mic are you using?

[errr314]

I am using some old Audiotechnica mic that I have had for a while. Its not too bad but I think I need to upgrade. I guess that could be part of the problem? I actually added more muffling and moved the mic back a bit. That really seemed to help tremendously. Thanks to all!

[giraffe]

try tuneing the kick down, i know it sounds strange but you can drop that boom out of the range of human hearing.

seriously, i've done it more than once, kicks too boomy, tune it down.

if it dosn't work you can always tune it back up again.
-G

[drummerdude666]

Is the kick drum boomy without micing it?

ie. When your in the room is the boomy? or is it only when miced up do you hear/notice boomyness?

[errr314]

I can actually hear the boominess somewhat in the room but when its recorded it really comes out! Strange. I am actually looking into upgrading by kick mic. I will try detuning a little more. Just past wrinkled right? Good suggestions. Just now I tried putting the mic next to the beaters on the batter side. I am about to give it a listen.

[PhilGood]

There might be a "standing wave" problem, too. What are the room dimensions? Do you have any acoustic treatments, baffles, etc?

Also, are you adding EQ at all?

[errr314]

The room is roughly 14' x 14'. The kit is at the back wall facing square into the room. I did put egg crate foam squares on the walls in 4'x'4' squares (I know its cheesy but its all I can afford) to try to just break up the flatness. Hmmmm... maybe some sort of bass trap in the corners would help? Once I tuned the head down more it started to get a little better. By the way I am using a mic from a 4 pack of mics I bought about 5 years ago. Audio Technica Drum Kitpak. Its also going through one of the direct preamps on my Delta 1010. I have tried routing it through my cheese Behringer 1202 mixer but the difference is negligible. I keep wondering if those are part of the problem as well (but I do hear the boom a little in the room).

[errr314]

Ooops. I forgot to mention that I can use EQ to get rid of the boominess but I guess my goal is to try to use as little eq'ing as possible for the kick. I have heard a few kick tracks that sounded great with no eq but they had better mics and pre amps. I am going to upgrade fairly soon. I just wanted to see what my potential was with my current setup without having to spend more.

[PhilGood]

Try some kind of baffle to keep waves from bouncing around if possible. Wish we could hear a clip. That would help.

Definately try tuning the kick down like giraffe said. As low as you can without wrinkles or being flappy. Also try raising the pitch up. I remember reading we didn't know elephants emit low rumbles around 15hz until someone sped up a tape recording. If the boominess raises with the drum then it could be tuning or something with the drum. 14 x14 raises a flag in my head. Recording room walls shouldn't be multiples of each other. If you clap your hands do you hear a "boing"? If its dead you're OK.

It also might also be your playback system. What happens when you play the track on another system?

[errr314]

Ok everyone thanks for the help! I got it. The tuning was a little off. I kept over/under tuning the freaking thing. I was just turning the key a little too much. Man that took some very precise tuning but it sounds great now! Thanks again for all of your responses. Tuning can make a HUGE difference.

[PhilGood]

Good job! Glad it worked out!

[giraffe]

it's ALL about the source. (i'd say 70% anyway)
give me good players, with good technique and good instruments over a 2500 dollar mic any day.

the more i record the more i lothe bad equipment and people with bad tone.

[Venni]

Bd is tricky. Some use 2-3 mics for just Bd.

Check out
http://www.johnvestman.com/secrets_of_miking.htm

When you get it sounding almoust right, then try param.eq. up around 5k. move th peak in the spectrum till it sounds right.use lots of comp. roughly 50ms attack/ 100ms release
Get it pumping.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by Venni

Bd is tricky. Some use 2-3 mics for just Bd.

Check out
http://www.johnvestman.com/secrets_of_miking.htm

When you get it sounding almoust right, then try param.eq. up around 5k. move th peak in the spectrum till it sounds right.use lots of comp. roughly 50ms attack/ 100ms release
Get it pumping.

Why such a slow attack time? I would use a faster attack time for a bass guitar!!!
I usually go for a fast attack since a kick drum has .... fast attack. Around 2ms. I aint too sure about the release times though. im thinking around 5ms.

[ecktronic]

Here are two samples. One is a dry Kick drum on its own and the other is the same kick with effects in a mix. Just to show that a not so great dry kick recording can sound pretty good in a mix if EQd and compressed well.
sample1: "DRY KICK" (as you can hear this is a live recording)
sample2: "KICK IN MIX"
click on link at bottom to get samples.

[skipwave]

The slower attack time is intended to allow the initial transients through, then catch the body of the kick sound, the primary tone. Bydoing so you should hear more consistency of the actual note, while keeping the dynamics of the performance.

Remember, we're dealing in milliseconds here. I don't image that a 5ms comp would do anything but knock down the attack of the beater, doing nothing for the actual primary note of the drum.

Hope that helps.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by skipwave

Remember, we're dealing in milliseconds here. I don't image that a 5ms comp would do anything but knock down the attack of the beater, doing nothing for the actual primary note of the drum.

Hope that helps.

A single Kick drum's attack (meat) only lasts for about 20-30ms, so im thinking that the compressors attack should be atleast less than half of 20-30ms. Does that sound resonable at all?