Girls!! (and recording)

[cuibono]

Hi yall. Need some advice here: Ive been recording this female singer, folk-ish, fairly high pitched voice, and she really wants to do a lot of the backup vocals overdubbed. The problem is, when she does, the vocal tracks become very very 'shimmery' - kind of like phase cancelation problems, but not like shes speaking through a can. More kind of an angelic chorus. This is annoying because she wants her music to be dark and spooky. Althought there are all sorts of spooky effects that could be added, Im trying to find a un-gimmicky way to stop the chorus of angels.

Right now I am really hard EQing the highs down, anyone have any suggestions?

Maybe an outboard harmonizer?

We are using Mojave Audio Tube mics (nice!) into an old tascam M-512 into a computer at 24bits/96kHz..

All suggestions appreciated

-Patrick

[giraffe]

try useing a dynamic mic to record the backups.

[scottboyher]

Sometimes angels can be spooky. But yea.. Try a different mic for the backups...

[Farview]

Try a different mic. If you are doing happy sounding harmonies, it will be hard to keep them from sounding happy. try a forth, or a fifth below, something that doesn't sound do happy.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by giraffe

try useing a dynamic mic to record the backups.

Originally Posted by Farview

If you are doing happy sounding harmonies, it will be hard to keep them from sounding happy. try a forth, or a fifth below, something that doesn't sound do happy.

Good and Great.

Use a dynamic, and have her sing minor chords. There's your solution.

[cuibono]

thanks for the replies, except chessrock . I had tried a sm58 and it didnt really help, but I'll try some more. Ive also tried pitch shifting and pushing the backup track a couple millisecondns back, in varying amounts, which made things worse. phase problems, i think

any more ideas?

[Farview]

Why would you pitch shift a vocal that is in tune? Altering the timing will make it sloppy. If you want something to sound dark, you have to sing something dark.

[chessrock]

He's right, ya know.

If she sings it all breathy, angelic, and pansy-like, it's going to sound that way.

[FALKEN]

have you played with distance?

I am going to go out on a limb and assume that if it were the arrangement that is the problem you wouldn't be posting here..

she might want to try different "voices".

u know.

every singer has a few different "voices"

[northsiderap]

Lots of reverb.

I am recording a singer who I have double everything because it shakes down better during editing.

On one song for example, I had the singer sing in my pretty large tiled kitchen 10 feet away from the mic. The next track standing in the bathroom with the mic in the hallway.

If the vox are recorded clean (or not) I often take the lead vocal almost center panned +/- 10%. I take the next two tracks and reverb one and send it pan left, the other delay or something and pan it right. Volume much lower than the main VOX usually. This works with any song with multiples of the same/similar instruments.

Different voices would help alot. Most decent singers can sing an octave above or below their original stuff usually.

I'll have to try a dynamic mic for backups. Hmmm...

Ah reckon.

[Richard Monroe]

What mic did you use for the lead vox? I usually run backing vox through a different mic, something dark. Oktava MK319 is a favorite. I also use a little more reverb or delay on the backing vox. It sounds like the vocals are fighting for the same acoustic space. Pick a frequency range, say 1.8 to 2K to start, and give the lead vox a 2-3db bump and the backing vox a 2-3 db cut in the same range. That will pull them apart and define them. If that doesn't work, move the frequency range up and down until it does.-Richie

[cuibono]

Distance is awsome! Ive recently been playing with that a lot. You know, the arrangement is part of the problem, but some people can be pretty resistant. I will definatly try more reverb/different rooms and different EQing (the problem seems to be above 3k). I think different voices would be a big help - sounds fun too.

Has anyone had any good experience with harmonizers? There aren't any good non-PT plugins, correct (Im using Sonar)? If anyone has heard Gillian Welch's harmonies, they always blow me away. I wonder if she uses a harmonizer. They are amazing. Subtle but strong...

[grn]

have her sing more breathy, perhaps even whisper some of the tracks

[HangDawg]

For true vocal hottness, you need to run all vocals through at least 3 consecutive BBE sonic maximizers with the first one set aoubt 1/4 the second 1/2 then the third one fully cranked. The output of those need to be sent to a rack of alesis 3630 compressors for some good ole fashion squashing to eat up those transients. Ummm I'd run her through about 6 of em. Just set the knobs to anything cause you can't go wrong with the alesis comps. Now, double the track and reverse the phase on it and blend it with the original track. Ahh, now you should be right on the verge of exteme vocal hottness. The last and final step I'll leave for someone else to fill you in on. I'm tired and need some sleep.

[bigwillz24]

A Oktava MK-319 will make her dark...

[famous beagle]

Have her step out of the happy angelic dimension and into the dark, spooky dimension. If that doesn't work, make her eat a tuna sandwich before she sings the harmonies.

[hueseph]

A couple 'o' shot 'o' tequila won't hurt either. Seriously though.

The shots are for her not you.

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

For true vocal hottness, you need to run all vocals through at least 3 consecutive BBE sonic maximizers with the first one set aoubt 1/4 the second 1/2 then the third one fully cranked. The output of those need to be sent to a rack of alesis 3630 compressors for some good ole fashion squashing to eat up those transients. Ummm I'd run her through about 6 of em. Just set the knobs to anything cause you can't go wrong with the alesis comps. Now, double the track and reverse the phase on it and blend it with the original track. Ahh, now you should be right on the verge of exteme vocal hottness. The last and final step I'll leave for someone else to fill you in on. I'm tired and need some sleep.

Does the last and final step involve burning the result to a CD, throwing it high into the air, and using it for target practice?

[volltreffer]

It's probably the things she sings and the way she does. Overdubbing is NOT the way to go if you want to keep thing from being angel-like --- there was athread on enya and her overdubbing style, you might find it, if you seek.

If you have to overdub, spread the panning. Verbs may help. I found that cutting the presence (2-4k) area helps in getting a angel-like voice, so adding that might take you back to earth. Thouggh its prolly a nogo for background, as it will be very upfront then. Distort one or two of the background tracks...

Hope I could give you some ideas...

aXel

[Nandoram]

Give her several cups of coffee, let her smoke several cigarettes.... she'll start to sound spooky. That's what Paul McCartney did to get that raspy sound while recording OH DARLING off Abbey Road.

[mjareo]

Coming in late, but just adding my agreement to a lot of what has been said above. I have done only a little recording, but in a couple of the songs I have done, I was doing them late and night (and don't usually trust folks to sing the harmonies correctly), so I overdubbed and sang a trio with me, myself, and I. I had the same thing happen that you are describing, and I couldn't do a whole lot to get rid of the effect until I re-recorded the same harmony, but singing differently. It ended up sounding bad because the harmony was, as has been described above, a "happy" one and when I sang it dark it sounded worse. So all that to say, if your singer doesn't want someone else singing her harmonies (and I do understand that feeling) and she is set on the harmonization, she will probably have to fix the problem on her end for the best result.

Of course, I could be all wrong........I am still fairly new to the technical side of recording.....

[Dani Pace]

Tell her to work with it, just think what that same effect has done for Stevie Nix (Fleetwood Mac) a lot of her stuff has thet angelic quality but is pretty spooky at the same time. It could be that your singer's voice might be clashing with some of the instruments or maybe just isn't right for certain songs.

[shackrock]

distance, PANNING PANNING PANNING, and reverb/compression.

[Mo-Kay]

Originally Posted by hueseph

A couple 'o' shot 'o' tequila won't hurt either. Seriously though.

The shots are for her not you.

LMAO!!!!

[northsiderap]

Another thing...

As a producer, I often tell the singer doing a backup vox to 'listen' instead of 'sing.' By concentrating on just listening the vocalist is more likely to be additive to the previous tracks.

Sometimes I get sneaky and ease off the level of the backup vox in the cans so the singer hears the main vox a little more than him/herself.