My home recording studio ideas. Here's the scoop.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Hey everyone. I'm going to build my own home studio. NOTE that it will be small scale and small budget. Here's what I'm putting into it so far:

Building my recording PC unit:
-P4 2.8 w/ HT
-160 gig HDD
-1 gig memory
-CreativeLabs Audigy 2 Platinum (FINAL!!!)
-other stuff that doesnt really matter
-good studio monitors

mixer for drums

mics

soundproofing

drum platform.

You may be wondering "Why would he need a drum platform for his studio?" Well, I don't...but I need one b/c the room my studio is in is the room in the basement w/ the sprinkler valve and water meters and such, so i'm taking precaution towards the drums.

What else do I need? I've probably (most likely) forgotten some things, b/c this is my first big thread and I'm kinda wondering how I'll phrase it.

INPUT AND/OR SUGGESTIONS would be appreciated....but NOTE it'll be small scale and small budget. Nothing too extravagent, but enough to make a really nice CD for my band (and a few other ones too!).

[earworm]

my biggest question is:

what are you gonna do with

-CreativeLabs Audigy 2 Platinum (FINAL!!!)

this?

i wouldn't buy that...get yourself a recording soundcard instead,
isn't this thing for gamers?

what do you intend to do? record on one track, or you want to multitrack?
since you're gonna record drums i suggest you get something like a
delta1010 (i used it and is very nice)
motu 828 (i got this and rocks)

for monitors...i'm pretty satisfied with my active events tr8's,
and i suggest you put some "studio monitors" on top of your list otherwise its not really worth the effort to use nice mics, cables, preamps, mixer, soundcard, and then try to mix and premaster on cheap pc or hifi speakers...

it took me years to collect the gear i got now....
can i know how BIG your budget is?

then we can discuss further

[SMX_Dizzy]

the Audigy 2 Platinum is not necessarily a gamer's card: it has midi and 1/4 and things of that nature...my friend has the Audigy 1 Platinum and he uses it for recording, and it rocks. Who makes the Delta and the Motu?...I'm going with the Audigy 2 b/c i can get it for $99.

As for recording, I'm going with Cubase SE (one of the things i fogot to mention). I've used it and it's incredible. I love the multitrack aspect...endless possibilities!

"for monitors...i'm pretty satisfied with my active events tr8's,
and i suggest you put some "studio monitors" on top of your list otherwise its not really worth the effort to use nice mics, cables, preamps, mixer, soundcard, and then try to mix and premaster on cheap pc or hifi speakers..."

^ ^ ^ precisely. that's why i'm getting studio monitors!

Thanks very much for saying something! Keep them coming if you don't mind!

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

the Audigy 2 Platinum is not necessarily a gamer's card: it has midi and 1/4 and things of that nature...my friend has the Audigy 1 Platinum and he uses it for recording, and it rocks. Who makes the Delta and the Motu?...I'm going with the Audigy 2 b/c i can get it for $99.

You can get an audiophile 2496 for $99 too, or a Delta 44 for $149.

[gtrman_66]

I agree with mshilarious. For $99, the audiophile is a much better option.

[Theros]

I own the audigy 2, its not very versitile in its recording cababilities... A multi-input card would prolly suit your needs a bit more if you are serious about recording, as you'd only want to upgrade laters...

The audigy 2 works but thats about it, its got ASIO 2 drivers, so you can get good simultaneous record/playback performance and has a good quality of sound, but dont be fooled by creatives speil on what the card can do.... if you are recording on it, only ONE thing matters... that line-in... the rest is worthless in recording...

Then again, you mentioned a mixer, its possible to record multiple sources and output to the line-in using the mixer anyhows...

*coughs* anyhows.... yet another opinionated post from:

Theros

[hueseph]

You could use a mixer but you'll still be mixing down to two tracks because the audigy is only capable of two inputs(one stereo input) at a time. The headroom on the audigy cards is crap. They support asio 2 I don't believe they come with asio drivers. For the extra $50.00 I'd go with the delta44. Well I have a delta44 and it sounds great. It takes a lot of punishment and you get much better levels from it than you will from a creative labs card. You can use the gameport on the onboard ac97 chip on the mobo for midi. All you need is an adapter. Just my two cents.

[Todzilla]

If your soundproofing challenges are significant, you have a lot of work and money spending ahead of you. And that is no guarantee of success.

Do you need to keep sound out of other parts of the structure above you? or just to neighbors in adjacent houses?

What's your intended approach (please don't say auralex foam...)?

[TeyshaBlue]

I think I might go with the Tascam US 122 and forget the soundcard altogether. The 122 has 2 XLR inputs, 2 1/4" inputs, and 2 channel inserts phantom power for Condenser mics, headphone outputs + monitor outs with a seperate monitor level and is capable of 24bit. Included with the purchase is a copy of Cubase LE with a free upgrade.

I've had mine for a couple of months now and the little box has worked great for me. Not a single problem.

I will be moving up shortly to the Tascam FW series cause I need more inputs and I like the FW control surface.

Good luck.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

the Audigy 2 Platinum is not necessarily a gamer's card: it has midi and 1/4 and things of that nature...my friend has the Audigy 1 Platinum and he uses it for recording, and it rocks.

Yes it is a gamer card. Your friend isn't any smarter than you. But, you can show his ass up, do the right thing and buy a card designed for recording audio.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Could any of you post pics of these cards and where you can get them?

I like the Audigy b/c of all the inputs and the convienience of having a large front panel thing. Could i have an Audigy and say one of those delta cards w/ the big inputs?

Links would be appreciated too!

[Zoltar]

Hello..I'm new to posting here, but have been reading for a while and have obtained some great info. Anyway...
Had an Audigy.....ripped it out because it was muddy to my ears (my recordings)....and better suited for gamers not recording.
Gotta Delta 44...better sound quality (converters)..again to my ears...very easy to "hook stuff up" to it. (You'll need a pre-amp regardless). Saving for an RME..but am very happy with the Delta.



http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496+

http://www.zzounds.com/item--THKMIMD442

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

Could any of you post pics of these cards and where you can get them?

Google is your friend. Search for M-Audio, American Musical Supply, zZounds for a starter.

[Halion]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

Could any of you post pics of these cards and where you can get them?

I like the Audigy b/c of all the inputs and the convienience of having a large front panel thing. Could i have an Audigy and say one of those delta cards w/ the big inputs?

Links would be appreciated too!

Dude, take our advice: don't buy the Audigy. Pretty much everyone here will tell you that. Don't be fooled by the fact that the Audigy "looks professional with all the input thing upfront" or the fact that Creative is such a big company: they do not make things aimed at the serious home recording market.

Also, very, VERY important: Room treatment. Crap in -> amazingly godly gear -> best fucking tracking and mixing skills -> still crap at the end.

[MKS]

The Audigy 2 is crap. I just ripped mine out of my home PC and ordered this for mixing projects at home:

http://tinyurl.com/ds4o3

I actually placed the order with zzounds by making them price match it and beat it with free shipping. That price is a amazing. I'm still shocked zzounds honored it.

[SMX_Dizzy]

I think i'm gonna go w/ the Audigy Platinum and that Delta card w/ the 4in/4out box thing. It should be pretty awesome. That thing from the post above me looks perfect.......WAY too expensive for me, but maybe i'll look around and find one on ebay or something.

Thanks.

[Halion]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

I think i'm gonna go w/ the Audigy Platinum and that Delta card w/ the 4in/4out box thing. It should be pretty awesome. That thing from the post above me looks perfect.......WAY too expensive for me, but maybe i'll look around and find one on ebay or something.

Thanks.

Why would you buy two cards? THe Delta can be used for games, video's etc. Everything basicly. There will be absolutely no advantage to having both cards.

[SMX_Dizzy]

I think i might start saving for that M-audio 1814. It looks incredible. I don't think it'll be a problem that it connects via firewire....does anyone know if when firewire comes integrated into the case where u put the connects on the motherboard? I've just put firewire cards in the back, but the case i'm gonna get has a fron connector.

Anyway, now i'm saving desperately for the 1814 b/c it is one of the coolest things ever, and will help out a lot when i get all the drum mics. LAST QUESTION: Say i put 7 drums mics thru the back...would the all be mixed into one track on Cubase SE or would each seperate mic come on as a track?

Thank you so much guys. I'm going to put the carpeting in the room next weekend!

[Monkey Allen]

Depends on where you send them. 7 inputs/ 7 individual mics all hooked up to your mixer, and sent to 7 individual inputs on your soundcard can be recorded on 7 different tracks. Or alternatively, 7 individual inputs into your soundcard can be sent to 7 individual tracks if you specify that in the software.

Firewire is standard in a lot of newer mobos. There is firewire 1 and firewire 2 now. Check the specs of your mobo...look for something like IEEE 1339 or something like that...that is the 1st firewire type.

[Halion]

Originally Posted by SMX_Dizzy

LAST QUESTION: Say i put 7 drums mics thru the back...would the all be mixed into one track on Cubase SE or would each seperate mic come on as a track?

Thank you so much guys. I'm going to put the carpeting in the room next weekend!

Do keep in mind that this thing as only 2 mic preamps build in, which means that even though you have more than enough inputs and outputs, you do need to get more preamps if you want to use 7 mics at the same time, and that could be costy. You could get a cheap mixer, but it won't improve you sound quality that much.

To answer your question: each track in Cubase is linked to one input, meaning you do get a single track per mic.

[SMX_Dizzy]

Do i really need to get a preamp or could i just get some xlr to 1/4 cords?

And are those two mic plugins xlr or something else? I have untill the first few weeks in June to decide how this is all going to work, so i'm just trying to get everything sorted out before i make my purchases.

[Halion]

Yes, you need preamps, not just cables. If you don't use preamps, the mics will either not work at all (because they are not getting phantom power), or their level will be so low that turning it up digitally will result in huge amounts of noise, or just ugly sound.

The mic inputs are XLR.

[SMX_Dizzy]

I'm not sure if I'll get individual drum mics first...I'll just use 2 overheads to begin w/. Those should work in the XLR mic inputs on the front. But how much is a preamp for mics? Post links if possible!

And does anyone know anything about my motherboard question? Does the IEEE (firewire) plug into the USB parts or are there specific pins for the firewire?

Thanks!

EDIT: And why do the mics do this if i use an XLR-1/4 cable instead of the preamp? It's just a lot cheaper i'm assuming...but i'd think it would work.

[snow lizard]

Soundcards:

- Latency

Creative Labs cards all use the same A/D converters. These converters are similar to some you might find in a few of the $20.00 Chineese soundcards. Latency means that although the card has full duplex capability (this means that you can record and playback at the same time) there is a delay time between the sound that you hear in your headphones or monitors (when you play your instrument to record) and when it actually gets recorded. If you're going to overdub lots of tracks for different instruments, everything will be slightly out of sync. Also, unless Creative Labs has changed things, these converters operate at 16 bit, 48000 Hz. Yes, you can set them to different rates, but the card will do a conversion to, and/or from 16/48k. Not the A/D converter itself. More latency.

A good quality audiophile or recording soundcard will have other features that work a lot better. All cards have latency, but if it's 5% to 10% of what you're going to get with a Soundblaster (= LOW LATENCY), you won't be able to notice it. Add to that if you change the bit rate and sample rate, the A/D converters will switch to the set rate, unlike the one set to 16/48k only, relying on an external conversion.

- Noise Floor

Consumer cards can be anywhere from not very good to even worse for recording. Cards made for recording are much much more quiet. The list goes on to things like frequency response, yadda yadda.

Yes you can record with any full duplex card, but prices have come down so much on the prosumer recording stuff that it doesn't make sense to look at the other stuff unless you need the midi/game port.

PCI cards cost less, but use the same A/D converters. That's the important part.

Microphones and Preamps:

Microphones put out a low level signal. The inputs to a soundcard that doesn't have a built in mic pre are line level. The mic will not have a loud enough signal to record, so you need a preamp to make the mic loud enough.

Dynamic mics do not use phantom power.

Condenser mics need phantom power.

Dynamic and condenser mics are both used for recording. Condensers are good at recording sounds from far away, like if you're going to record a drum kit with 2 overheads only.

There are a bunch of cheap preamps on the market, but to have really good sound, you need a really good preamp. If you're on a budget and you need a lot of preamps, you might want to look at getting a small mixer. An Allen & Heath Mixwizard mixing board can give you around 10 preamps for something close to $100.00 per preamp. They are not the best, but this is an excellent place to start. The thing is, you will need something like $1,000.00 to start looking at one but the quality is ok. Behringer and Alto are companies that make cheap, cheap, cheap mixers. They are not very good, but they work and they can get you started if you don't have much money. All of this stuff has phantom power if you need to use a condenser mic. There are a lot of other products - some work better than others.

For drum overheads, you probably want to look at a pair of small diaphragm condenser mics, sometimes called pencil condensers. You can start to record most other stuff with dynamic mics like the Shure SM 57.

If you spend a lot of time reading archives in this BBS or other recording forums, you will learn a lot about recording. Do a search for the topics you're interested in and see what happens.

Oh yeah:

Mics operate at low impedence. This is usually an XLR input. Instruments operate at high impedence. This is usually a 1/4" input. There is a difference.

Links:

Pro quality expensive stuff: http://www.mercenary.com/

M-Audio: http://www.m-audio.com/

Shure Microphones: http://www.shure.com/

Ultra Cheap Mixers: http://www.altoproaudio.com/html/mixers.php

Much Better Mixers:
http://www.allen-heath.com/

Something Different:
http://www.greatriverelectronics.com/

You Are Here:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/

[SMX_Dizzy]

It seems i'm being talked out of the Audigy. I might accept this fact that it sucks and all, but what am I gonna do about MIDI inputs?

I still need a cound card thought that has the standard speaker input. The studio monitors i'm considering (highly) use standard computer speaker inputs, and so far I've not seen a card suggested with one. This is making me think I should get the Audigy, a Delta or Audiophile, and that M-Audio 1814. Unless someone can help me with the speaker input and MIDI situation, i'm almost positive i'm still going Audigy.

It would be very helpful if someone could post some specific links to mic preamps. (forgive me if there are preamps in the above links)

Thank you so much.....that last post was incredibly helpful, snow lizard.

EDIT: Is this the kind of preamp I need? It looks very good and is pretty cheap. But what kind of cable becomes the output?