Random cymbal, tuning questions...

[tilinmyowngrave]

First: If you have 2 toms of the same size but tune them differently, will they sound noticebly different? or will they sound very similar, even if tuned differently?

Second: DO drums warp if they get wet? DO drums warp easily? How long does it take?

Third: Whats a good way to protect drums while transporting them without spending $300 on cases and bags?

Fourth: The two brands of cymbals I hear most about are ZIldjian and Sabian. In fact, had I not seen that my four favorite drummers (Danny Carey, Josh Freese, John Dolmayan, and John Bonham) all had the words "Paiste" on their cymbals, I would never had known of the existence of Paiste, meaning I would never know about their Signhature series, menaing... well... bad stuff (signatures RULE). But in addition to these, their are also other cymbal companies... Istanbul, Meinl, Wuhan and probably others I don't know. How come Zildjian and Sabian (and Paiste) are so well known? Is it because they are better than the other cymbals, or is it just advertising? Is it truly a difference in sound quality, or is it just that one company has better advertising and more famous players using them?

[Duggan]

1. I would say that you can get two of the same sized toms to sound very, very different. Try different tunings, different heads and different ways of dampening e.g evans mini EMADS or tape.

2. Always keep drums away from moisture and direct sunlight is probably a good rule of thumb! Ive heard of touring artists putting maybe a silica packet in to reduce moisture in a van not sure how well this works or wether its applicable to your situation.

3. I think its always worth spening a bit of money on drum cases or bags cos at the end of the day youve made an investment , and you wanna keep it nice and clean and that! When i didnt have cases I just put the bass drum on the back seat and seperated all the toms and hardware in the boot with towels. Not ideal at all.

4. Its all research for cymbals, and even venturing out to the factories and the like. I recently found a new cymbal manufacturer who make quality and really radical cymbals called orion cymbals. Check them out at www.orioncymbals.com Im sure most brands of cymbal now have websites so maybe try and find some on google or a search engine? Also If I can say one thing is try never to buy cymbals without hearing them first! The thing is you might find a sabian B8 crash nicer sounding than one of the new sabian vault crashes! as silly as its sounds thats how it goes. Its like my friend who can afford any cymbal plays pro sonix 13' hats. Nothing else.

Hope that helps

Duggan

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

First: If you have 2 toms of the same size but tune them differently, will they sound noticebly different? or will they sound very similar, even if tuned differently?

The previous post answered this quite well. You could get them to sound different.

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

Second: DO drums warp if they get wet? DO drums warp easily? How long does it take?

We call it "going out of round" and yes it happens. If you get a drum wet, dry it off quickly. The moisture has to get into the wood of the shell to warp it. As the wood expands it can break the glue that holds the plys togther as well as altering the wood's cell structure. Since shells are formed under pressure, the stress gets released by moisture.

It takes a long time to get into the wood, though. Just getting it wet and drying it off won't hurt it. The worst thing is to leave them stored in a damp place for a long period of time.

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

Third: Whats a good way to protect drums while transporting them without spending $300 on cases and bags?

Pillow cases, sheets and plastic tarps. Ugly, but hey! You can sew your own drum bags, too.

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

Fourth: The two brands of cymbals I hear most about are ZIldjian and Sabian. In fact, had I not seen that my four favorite drummers (Danny Carey, Josh Freese, John Dolmayan, and John Bonham) all had the words "Paiste" on their cymbals, I would never had known of the existence of Paiste, meaning I would never know about their Signhature series, menaing... well... bad stuff (signatures RULE). But in addition to these, their are also other cymbal companies... Istanbul, Meinl, Wuhan and probably others I don't know. How come Zildjian and Sabian (and Paiste) are so well known? Is it because they are better than the other cymbals, or is it just advertising? Is it truly a difference in sound quality, or is it just that one company has better advertising and more famous players using them?

Zildjian came to the US in the 1930s from Turkey. They were the only US manufacturer of cymbals until Bob Zildjian decided to start his own company back in the 80s. The company is named after his three kids, Sally, Billy and Andy. Sa-Bi-An.

The Paiste family started their company in Sweden back in the mid 1900s. (I don't remeber the year.) They were distibuted in Europe and were the most popular there in the same way Zildjian was the most popular in the US.

Carmine Appice was one of the first American drummers to start using Paistes in the 70s. They didn't start catching on until the early 80s. Paiste realized their marketability with the introduction of the 2002 line, which was very popular with rock drummers because they had a bright sound, were durable compared to the 602 line, and very consistant in sound from cymbal to cymbal.

Paiste has become a serious force in America, but it was a distribution issue until recently. Zildjian and Ludwig also had programs for schools to get equipment at discounts. This was brilliant as it made Zildjian the most common name when thinking of cymbals in the US. I didn't even know about Paiste until my last year of high school. Now they are my favorite cymbals.

Don't forget, Zildjian players have great alliegance for a reason. They make great cymbals. Sabian used the same family recipe when starting out, so essentially, they were Zildjian under a different name. The reason these are the big three is they have been around the longest. Istanbul cymbals are made in the old Zildjian factory in Turkey. Meinl is a small company from Germany kinda like Selmer. Their cymbals are fantastic, but they haven't been able to penetrate the "big three" market share. Other outstanding companies are UFIP (italian made & wonderful!) and Wuhan - which until recently only made chinese cymbals. Kinda if-ey on their western cymbals.

You can learn the detailed history from each company on their websites.

[tilinmyowngrave]

I use talc powder for my Tabla drums to keep them dry. Can I also sprinkle some powder into the drums? Or rub it around the shells? Would it affect the sound?

[PhilGood]

I don't think you'd have a problem unless you live in a really humid area. If that's the case, the best way to protect them is a coat or two of varnish to the wood. Talc certainly wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it would really help much.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

The Paiste family started their company in Sweden back in the mid 1900s. (I don't remeber the year.) They were distibuted in Europe and were the most popular there in the same way Zildjian was the most popular in the US.

Carmine Appice was one of the first American drummers to start using Paistes in the 70s. They didn't start catching on until the early 80s. Paiste realized their marketability with the introduction of the 2002 line, which was very popular with rock drummers because they had a bright sound, were durable compared to the 602 line, and very consistant in sound from cymbal to cymbal.

Paiste has become a serious force in America, but it was a distribution issue until recently. Zildjian and Ludwig also had programs for schools to get equipment at discounts. This was brilliant as it made Zildjian the most common name when thinking of cymbals in the US. I didn't even know about Paiste until my last year of high school. Now they are my favorite cymbals.

What's inmteresting about the Zildjian and Ludwig realtionship, I that Pasite used to make cymbals for Ludwig - that's originally why Bonham played them! They came with the set, then he got an endorsement with them (probably because of Carmine Appice- Appice got Bonham his Ludwig endorsement during Zeppelin's first US tour as support for Vanilla Fudge.

Premier had a cymbal line called Krut (Turk spelled backwards) and there were other brands like Spizz, and a brand during the 80's that were Tiger striped, although I can't remember the name offhand.
At one time, Camber also made professional grade cymbals that looked and sounded like Zildjian's, but they eventually just made "El Cheapo" cymbals.

Paiste also made cymbals for Pearl drums during the 80's called the "Wild" series (it was just a Paiste Rude cymbal with Pearl's logo on it.)
I've been a Paiste man for years (Bonzo is the reason I started playing. First it was Peter Criss when I was a kid in the 70's, but once I heard Bonzo - thatwas all she wrote.)


Tim

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

Third: Whats a good way to protect drums while transporting them without spending $300 on cases and bags?

Get cheaper bags? I got some bags that seem fairly durable (real cloth, not thin nylon) for... I think $125 on eBay. Of course, that was just for the basic set---no cymbals or 10" add-on tom---but it's also a far cry from $300.

[Duggan]

premier also had zyn( budget) and 5star super zyn (pro)