Mixing Analog with Digital

[JuliánFernández]

I found a cheap Fostex R8... I´m wondering if i can use it on my current setup. I´m using my firepod to record different kinds of musics... jazz, pop, fussion, rock...
I don´t know if it´s worthy... Should i go for it or save for high end pres?
I read that most hi end productions still record on analog and then mix in ProTools or whatever... Maybe this is not the same kind of "analog" technology...
Any clarification is welcome!

[chessrock]

No, it isn't exactly the same kind of analog recording technology you've read about, but the general process and approach are similar.

But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. If you're really fascinated by tape, and you think it would be cool to own a reel-to-reel, then why not give it a shot and see what you think? You should be foreworned, however, that you'll have to familiarize yourself with a whole different thought process and method of recording.

If I were you, I'd first try to rent a reel deck for a week or so, and see if it suits your recording style. You may get hooked and become a big analog freak. I've seen it happen. Or you could just get frustrated with some of the quirks and inconveniences of analog and just say "fuck it." I've seen that happen a lot, too.

I have nothing against analog, mind you, but I would most definitely fall in to the latter category, nonetheless.

[JuliánFernández]

Thanks chessrock... so, which kind of analog recording technology i´d read about? Links of info would be cool...
Which is the tipical setup with this kind of machines? Analog Recorder>AD convert>DAW?

[chessrock]

Don't have any links, but the info is out there if you look.

As far as the process goes, you'd track everything to the reel-to-reel deck. Once everything is tracked to the reels, you'd then take those and do what's called a "transfer" ... to your daw. Basically, you're re-recording all of the tracks to your DAW at once. And from there you futz around with it; edit and mix it using your software.


The professionals use gazillion-dollar Studer decks that utilize 2"-inch tape and can usually track around 24 tracks, simultaneously.

This as opposed to that Fostex you're talking about, which is probably 1/4" tape and can do up to 8 tracks, etc.

That's not to say there's anything horribly wrong with the machine. After working with it, your biggest complaint will probably be the inconvenience, high expense, and lack of availability of tape. Not to mention the difficulty in repair should your machine ever decide to poop out on you.

Then there's all the hissing. Not to mention the whole "crappy sound" thing at first. Again, it will be an adjustment, but in time you might learn to work around the limitations and get some really cool sounds with it.

[Warhead]

I ran a Fostex M80 1/4" machine in the early 90's, made some cool records with it.

War

[maskedman72]

i owned a fostex r-8 and made some good sounding recordings with it.

[JuliánFernández]

I believe that the R8 has 8 rca outs... so, can i just go from the outs to the ins on my firepod? This seems so simple...

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by JuliánFernández

I believe that the R8 has 8 rca outs... so, can i just go from the outs to the ins on my firepod? This seems so simple...

Yea, you got the idea. It ain't rocket surgery.

Make sure you bypass any mic preamps on the firepod. I don't know if those things have any switches where you can just go line-level input. I'm assuming they do ... so just make sure you're not going from the R8 in to a microphone-level input. Otherwise, it will sound like poo.

[JuliánFernández]

How many times can i use the same tape? I can buy some used tapes, but i don´t know if i can still use them....

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by JuliánFernández

How many times can i use the same tape? I can buy some used tapes, but i don´t know if i can still use them....

You'll want to get an eraser.

These are basically high-powered magnets that you plug in, and you run the tape reel over it.

They can be tricky, because it's easy to do a half-assed erase job. And that's what can cause the whole "wow and flutter" thing that people love so much about tape.

[JuliánFernández]

so, should i ask for a tape eraser with the machine? I´m not sure, but i think that every tape lose some fidelity every time you erase it... am i right?

Let´s say i ran my mic into the Firepod and the the out to the Fostex... Can i hear in real time the recording if i send the outs of the Fostex directly into another channel of the Firepod? It makes sense?
Like... Mic>Channel1 FP>Fostex out>Channel2 FP>DAW...

[chessrock]

There's really no need to go through all that.

If your mics are plugged in to the firepod, then just monitor from the Firepod.


And no, you're not going to lose any fidelity by erasing. In fact, tape tends to sound better after it's bee "broken in," although that could just be an urban myth. If you don't erase it all the way, which is easy, you'll get left-over noise from what was on the tape previously. Like hearing a ghost in your recordings. Spoooky.

[JuliánFernández]

Ok... which is your advice...
PIONEER RT-707
or
REVOX A77
Any idea?

[maskedman72]

you can also erase the tape on the r8 itself in both directions..that is erase it tails in than erase it tales out. the downside is that you have to do it in real time.

even when you buy a brand new reel of tape and you record a song on it.....if you want to re-record that song cause it was a bad take or whatever you are now recording over used tape.

[wang191]

Originally Posted by chessrock

You'll want to get an eraser.

These are basically high-powered magnets that you plug in, and you run the tape reel over it.

They can be tricky, because it's easy to do a half-assed erase job. And that's what can cause the whole "wow and flutter" thing that people love so much about tape.

The bulk erasers actually demagnatise the tape as opposed to magnatising it. It uses a 60hz signal to demagnatise it. Be careful when using it cuz you can end up ruining your credit cards if your not careful.

How is wow and flutter caused by a poor erase job?? Unless you mean because dirt and metal could be attached to the tape unevenly and slow the tape down randomly.

When recording with tape you'll want to take into consideration: With 1/4 inch tape your area to record is not that wide. It may lead to bleeding from one track to the next. Also, you'll want to record low frequency items toward the outer tracks, such as bass. This is beacuse the tapa has a larger chance to get damaged toward the outside as well as loose energy. If you record high frequency information to those tracks you will hear a greater difference than low frequency information.

[wang191]

And no, you're not going to lose any fidelity by erasing. In fact, tape tends to sound better after it's bee "broken in," although that could just be an urban myth. If you don't erase it all the way, which is easy, you'll get left-over noise from what was on the tape previously. Like hearing a ghost in your recordings. Spoooky.

The more you run the tape the more debree from the heads and magnatised dirt will get on the tape. That's what will make the tape start to degrade in sound..because the dirt will keep the tape from touching the head leading to less magnetic power recording to the tape. Your sound wont have as much punch.
So as you use the same tape over and over the sound may loose quality. Not to mention that the magnetic material will also get britle and fall off the tape after so many uses. But that's also after the tape is old. Remember that each pass past the head messes with the tape. It is rubbing on the head. It's mechanical. Any mechanical process will slowly deteriorate the materials.

Erasing doesnt cause the tape to loose fidelity but playing it and rerecording on it will.