SB Live Drive and N-Track

[krysis]

Ok, I got N-Track to work on my system, but I want to record 2 seperate inputs to 2 seperate tracks. I'm using a SoundBlaster Live Platinum and nothing I do seems to work. I can get the 2 inputs going at the same time, but they only record to one track. Is what I'm trying to do even possible with that card?

[DaveO]

Did you record to a single mono track? If so then there's not much you can do but re-record. Hope that wasn't a killer take that you HAVE to have. If so, just work with it as best you can and THEN try the following for future takes.

If you recorded to one stereo track, you're in luck. You can split the stereo track and get two separate mono tracks. First, select the track. I'm at work now and going from memory, but I think you can split it one of two ways - either from the "Track" button on the menu bar or from the "Properties" for that track. I can't remember exactly where it is but it shouldn't be hard to find if it's not in one of these two places.

If your real goal is to record two sources simultaneously onto two separate mono tracks, then yes you can do this - and it's easy. First, bring up the Record Level VU meter. Press the "Settings" button. Then select "Two mono tracks". When this is set, you can record one source using the left channel and one using the right channel. This doesn't mean that the tracks are panned left and right. When you record them they will both be panned to the center. To adjust the L/R balance for given track, you can open either the channel strip for that track or open the full mixer. Each track has its own pan knob, so adjust each track to suit your needs.

Hope that helps.

[krysis]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'm looking to record two different sources onto two seperate track simultaneously. I'm at work right now, but am going to try out your suggestion as soon as I get home. Thanks!

[DaveO]

Well, like I said before *I'm* at work too, so as soon as I get home I'm going to make sure I gave you the right info.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it is. I'm going from memory here, but I *have* split stereo tracks before. I used to record guitar as a single stereo track but I eventually learned that you might want to process each side differently. I had to split them to do that. Now I usually record guitar as two mono tracks so I don't have to split them.

[krysis]

Hmmm, ok, maybe I'm not doing this right. Like for example, I want to have my drum machine and a synth record on N-track at the same time since they're midi syncd. But I want the drum machine on one track and the synth on a completely seperate track. Nothing I do so far seems to work. I haven't tried running them through a mixer and panning one left and the other right and then splitting the stereo track in N-track, but wouldn't that make it lose sound quality?

[DaveO]

I didn't realize you were talking MIDI. That's one of the things I want to learn in the near future (as if learning recording and a new instrument aren't enough right now) but I just haven't gotten there yet. Sorry.

I do, however, have two final suggestions. The first is to ask the same question in the MIDI forum since I have a hunch this may be a general MIDI question rather than an n-Track question. Note that this is dangerously close to cross-posting, so I'd suggest first asking the question in the MIDI forum, then come back to THIS thread and add one more reply that includes a link to your question in the MIDI Forum. That way anyone who wants to address it can refer to the MIDI forum rather than adding to this one. Hopefully that will keep you from getting into too much trouble.

The second idea is to try posting that same question in the Discussion section of FASoft's web site (http://www.fasoft.com). I've asked a few questions there and have gotten quick responses, sometime even from Flavio himself.

[DaveO]

I didn't realize you were talking MIDI. That's one of the things I want to learn in the near future (as if learning recording and a new instrument aren't enough right now) but I just haven't gotten there yet. Sorry.

I do, however, have two final suggestions. The first is to ask the same question in the MIDI forum since I have a hunch this may be a general MIDI question rather than an n-Track question. Note that this is dangerously close to cross-posting, so I'd suggest first asking the question in the MIDI forum, then come back to THIS thread and add one more reply that includes a link to your question in the MIDI Forum. That way anyone who wants to address it can refer to the MIDI forum rather than adding to this one. Hopefully that will keep you from getting into too much trouble.

The second idea is to try posting that same question in the Discussion section of FASoft's web site (http://www.fasoft.com). I've asked a few questions there and have gotten quick responses, sometime even from Flavio himself.

[DaveO]

I didn't realize you were talking MIDI. That's one of the things I want to learn in the near future (as if learning recording and a new instrument aren't enough right now) but I just haven't gotten there yet. Sorry.

I do, however, have two final suggestions. The first is to ask the same question in the MIDI forum since I have a hunch this may be a general MIDI question rather than an n-Track question. Note that this is dangerously close to cross-posting, so I'd suggest first asking the question in the MIDI forum, then come back to THIS thread and add one more reply that includes a link to your question in the MIDI Forum. That way anyone who wants to address it can refer to the MIDI forum rather than adding to this one. Hopefully that will keep you from getting into too much trouble.

The second idea is to try posting that same question in the Discussion section of FASoft's web site (http://www.fasoft.com). I've asked a few questions there and have gotten quick responses, sometime even from Flavio himself.

[krysis]

Well, it's not really so much a midi question actually. You could completely pull midi out of the picture and it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I just want some way to get N-track to work more like a hardware recorder, with 2 inputs that I can record on at the same time, with each input having a different instrument in it, and being recorded to different tracks.

[DaveO]

If all you're doing is using a mono out on the drum machine and a mono out on the synth, then you will have no problem. It works just as I decsribed earlier (unless I'm completely missing your point). At least I'm at home now, so the following description is VERY accurate and detailed, unlike the one I gave from work the other day.

First, get the right kind of cable(s). I'm guessing your drum machine and your synth both have a mono output, probably your left output. I'd also bet that these are 1/4" mono jacks. You therefore need a cable that has a pair of 1/4" inch mono plugs on one end, one plug for each instrument. I have an SB Live! Value, but I'm guessing your card also has a single 1/8" stereo jack as a line in. The other end of your cable would therefore be a 1/8" stereo plug.

Next, start n-Track and click on the "Input VU-Meter" button. When the meter pops up it will actually say "Recording VU-Meter", not "Input VU-Meter". Click on the "Settings" button. You'll get another small window titled "Select Audio Format". One the left side are your selections for "Channels". The button selection is "Stereo -> Two Mono Tracks". Make sure that is selected, then click the "OK" button. You are now set.

Just in case you've modified (accidentally or not) your menu bars and no longer have the icon across the top, you can also get to the Recording VU-Meters another way. Click on "View" from the top menu bar, then select "Recording VU-Meter". it will pop right up.

Now when you record you'll get two mono tracks. One will have the drum machine and one will have the synth. Note that these two tracks are both panned to the center by default. To pan them L/R to suit you mix, You simply turn the pan knob on the channel strip for that track. You can do this one of two ways. For the first one, find the track you want on the n-Track screen. There will be a "M", an "S", and a ">>" arranged vertically for each track. Pressing the ">>" gives you the channel strip for that track. In the middle on the left side there is a "knob" with a single number below it. It will probably be 0 initially, which meanas the track is panned dead center. Click on that knob BUT DON'T RELEASE THE MOUSE BUTTON YET! As you move the mouse left/right while holding the button, you'll see the knob adjust the pan setting. -100 = hard left, 100 = hard right.

You can also get to this channel strip from the main mixer window. You modify your setting the same way as on the individual channel strip.

That's probably more decsription than you need but I wanted to be sure you understood it. I apologize if I insulted your intelligence.

[DaveO]

One other possibility I just thought of. It may be your playback channels setting - is it mono?

Open the "Output VU_Meters" by either clicking the button from your menu bar or by pressing "View" from your main menu bar, then selecting "Playback VU-Meter". Click on the "Settings" button. The "Channels" section is on the right side. Select "Stereo" and click "OK". You should be playing back in stereo now.

Of course, if you recorded drum machine and synth onto a single mono channel, then neither this suggestion nor my previous one will do anything to help the current situation. However, you can use these suggestions from now on to get the results you want.

[krysis]

Ok, either my system just won't work the way you describe or I'm and idiot. I tried everything you you suggested exactly as you described it and every time I end up with 2 mono tracks, but both the drum machine and synth are on both tracks. I even tried panning each instrument hard left/right on a mixer before running it into my computer and end up with the same result. This is now driving me crazy!!!

[DaveO]

Operator error is usually my biggest problem so I *have* to ask that question. That's the reason I also added that last post about checking your playback setting to make sure you're playing back in stereo, not mono.

There's another place besides the Playback VU-meter to check that but I'm at work now (I'm on my lunch break, really!) and am going from memory. Go to the "File" menu on the top menu bar and then select "Preferences", which is about 2/3 of the way down. There's a button on the preferences window for playing back in mono - I can't remember the exact wording. Make sure that button is set to playback stereo (I think checking that item means playback IN MONO). I'm not sure what would happen if you select select stereo playback from the playback VU meter but specify stereo playback in your preferences. These selections may conflict or they may be two different ways to change the same setting. I'm not sure.

Since you mentioned using a mixer to pan the instruments L and R before connecting to your sound card, what do you hear when you solo and mute the two channels on the mixer? Do you hear the instrument you expect on the side you expect (L or R) or do you still hear both instruments on both sides? If you can hear both in either channel then the problem probably doesn't involve your soundcard or n-Track.

[krysis]

Yup, I tried all that. No matter what I hear both instruments on both sides. I wonder if the SoundBlaster's Live drive only records mono from its input?

[DaveO]

I just tried it for myself and I was able to record two mono tracks simultaneously - drum machine on the left nad bass on the right.

I mentioned this in a previous post, but I just want to make sure about something first. But before I get there ...

You said you heard each instrument on it's own channel coming out of the mixer? That's good. Now, did you have your Recording VU Meter on while you were recording? If not then try recording with the meter visible. You should see the left and right channel of the VU meter responding differently to each channel (L and R). I just tried this and I could clearly see the drums on one channel and the bass on the other. I could also hear one instrument per channel on my monitors.

If that didn't work, then I'm not sure what to tell you other than to try the Creative (your soundcard's) mixer and see if there's something in there that's only letting you record mono. If it did work, then let me get back to my original thought - are you *sure* the n-Track mixer has these two tracks panned to one side or the other during playback? Remember that n-Track doesn't care which channel you use to record them - it's just making a single WAV file for each channel and that WAV file will be panned dead center. To hear the tracks panned properly during playback you have to go into the mixer and pan them yourself. I described that in an earlier post or two. If you have already panned them L and R during playback and you've set your playback mode to stereo, but you still hear two mono tracks playing back the same thing then I think I'm stumped.

Can you describe some of the other things that you tried to narrow it down to your soundcard or n-Track? I don't have the exact same card, but it's similar - a SoundBlaster Live! Value, which dounds like a step below the Premium you have. I'd bet the soundcard can do what you're asking. I'm just not sure why it's not.

[krysis]

I give up. I've tried everything and I just can't get it to work. I want to thank you for all your help though. I think I'm just going to look into using midi to record to try to accomplish what I want to do. Thanks again.

[DaveO]

Sorry to hear that. I just want to verify one thing since it's something I always forgot about when I first got n-Track. Are you sure you used the *n-Track* mixer (not your external one) to pan your tracks as needed during playback? Remember that when you record, n-Track will pan a track *dead center*. That means when you playback your drums and synth you will hear a mono mix. Think of your line in as channels 1 and 2 rather than left and right.

The mixer should be available on the menu bars across the top - it's just a rectangle with a few sliders in it. You can also bring up the mixer by selecting "View" --> "Mixer" from the top menu bar. You've probably already done this, but just make sure that you've panned the tracks properly using the pan knob on the channel strips. The pan knob is below the slider and to the left of the Mute and Solo buttons. If you haven't already done this, this should give you what you want. If you *have* done this, then I don't know what else I can offer. Sorry.

[krysis]

Yup, tried that too already, but still didn't work. I did spend a few minutes playing with the midi options last night and figured out how i can get what I'm looking for using that. I just have to record one instrument at a time though. But the midi sync starts them all in perfect timing and n-track's internal clock seems to be keeping each track at the same BPM. So in the end, a different solution, but I'm getting the results I wanted.

[DaveO]

Glad to hear you're finally working. I wish I could have actually helped.

Dang, I've gotta start learning MIDI.

[DaveO]

Here's a thought. Wouldn't you actually be able to record STEREO drums and synth now? If so, you're better off recording this way anyway.

[krysis]

Yeah exactly. Using midi to sync the sequenced parts of each instrument leaves me with a stereo track for each instrument. So, yep, I'm definately better off recording this way.

[sonnylarsen]

This is a limitation of SBLive. It has one stereo Line In to record, and one stereo mic Line(crap). Only one of these two stereo inputs can be used at a time.
To record multiple device to multiple tracks simultaneously, you would need a different soundcard. Using a mixer, you could record two separate MONO tracks with two separate instruments by panning one hard left and one hard right and setting up n-track as mentioned above, to record two mono track intead of one stereo. Ultimately, you will eventually want to get a more versatile soundcard. SBLive works very well(I use one right now) but I am quickly becoming aware of its limitations.

[Skyline609]

DaveO, great advice man, i was looking for answers to those questions to the longest time!!!
I have just wound up panning hard left and hard right on the board and just record to one stereo track before, but i think recording two mono tracks is the way to go! Thanks again!

[bdemenil]

can n-track record more than 2 tracks simultaneously?

[DaveO]

I still use a SoundBlaster Live! Value so I can't do more than two tracks at a time. However, I did find the following in the n-Track FAQs in the online help :

------------------------------------------------------

Q: Can n-Track record 4 simultaneous tracks?
A: The program can handle as many recording sources as you can think. As for the computer, recording a track is quite as much as heavy on the system load as playing back a track: call N the number of tracks you can playback with your computer without clicks or jumps in the music. The equation P+R=N must be satisfied for every possible value of P and R, where P is the number of tracks you want to playback and R is the number of tracks you want to record simultaneously. For example if N is 10, if you want to record 4 tracks at a time, you must keep the number of tracks to be played back while recording less than 6. Of course this gives you only an idea of the possible behavior of your computer and actual results may differ slightly. Anyway you can always partially mixdown a group of tracks and playback them as one track only.