Virgin To Analog Recording (some1 pop it)

[marathonman]

hey people! i'm really curious and excited in getting away from this digital 'harshness', im just frustrated with the sound of my recordings, its like you imagine the sound coming out one way and its nowhere close. i just noticed my recordings are 'harsh' , 'hard', 'non pleasing'. I've searched the net for as much info on analog etc. but i'm still needing to get a better direction as far as what to buy. and i had some questions for you guys, hope u guys dont mind!

i plan on recording from a tape machine and then dumping it into sonar 3 producer edtion. my question is, will that 'sound' of analog get lost in the process of being dumped into sonar?

my equipment:
m-audio 410 firewire
sonar 3
plugins (waves etc)
at4040 mic


and here i have found people from my city that are selling these tape machines and i was hoping u guys can look at them and tell me what u think would be the best choice.

Tascam 488 - $175 (Bellevue) pic

Tascam DA 20 - $165 (georgetown)

Tascam 414 mkII Portastudio (Ballard)

4 track recorder - $75 (capital hill)

Tascam Model 10 mixer mixing board- best offer - $75 (Port Orchard) pic

Tascam 488 Portastudo 8-Track Recorder - $295 (Burien) pic

Tascam US224 Digital Audio Workstation Controller/USB Interface - $150 (eastside) pic

Tascam DA-38 8-track Rack Unit - Barely Used - $500 (Seattle WA)

TASCAM DA-20 DAT recorder, excl cond - $200 (pdx)

Tascam 488 mkII cassette 8 track - $250 (tacoma)

TASCAM US-122 DAW DEVICE - $150 (EASTSIDE) pic

TASCAM DA88 w/ SY88 SYNC CARD FOR SALE or TRADE!!! (edmonds)

Tascam DA 30 MKII - $275 (west Seattle) pic

tascam 464 original owner - $200 (u-district) pic

TASCAM DA88 w/ SY88 SYNC CARD FOR SALE or TRADE!!! (seattle)

Professional grade DAT, Tascam DA-30 - $150 (Seattle, Greenlake)


i hope thats clear enough for you guys! well i dont know what else to say except advise, tips etc would be helpful.

btw i do realize the maintainence issue with tape machines...

thanx alot in advance

[Mark7]

The DAs and USes are digital machines. The 488 MKII is about the most useful analogue deck I can see in that list. Be aware, though, that it's only a four buss machine. So you can't record on all eight tracks simultaneously. However, unlike the other analogue machines in your list (414, 464 and 488), it does have two XLR jacks that can provide 48v phantom power to condenser mics. It also has sweep mid eq on all eight channels, which is a nice thing to have, and insert points on channels 1 and 2 (useful for patching in compressors and whatnot).

If you have the cash to spare look out for a Tascam 388. It's the mother of all portastudios

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by Mark7

The DAs and USes are digital machines. The 488 MKII is about the most useful analogue deck I can see in that list. Be aware, though, that it's only a four buss machine. So you can't record on all eight tracks simultaneously. However, unlike the other analogue machines in your list (414, 464 and 488), it does have two XLR jacks that can provide 48v phantom power to condenser mics. It also has sweep mid eq on all eight channels, which is a nice thing to have, and insert points on channels 1 and 2 (useful for patching in compressors and whatnot).

If you have the cash to spare look out for a Tascam 388. It's the mother of all portastudios

hey thanx for the reply, u have any link for the tascam 388, where i can purchase one etc...

i'll post some work i did recently 'digitally' for you guys... incase it helps ...

[Bloodbone]

Try ebay.
And only buy from someone with 100% positive feedback,or close.

[Raw-Tracks]

A Tascam 388 is not going to get you "that 'sound' of analog". It will get you that sound of tape hiss, wow and flutter. You should probably look towards an Otari MX5050 1/2" 8-track, or something along those line. 8 tracks on a cassette is not going to be a step in the right direction.

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by Raw-Tracks

A Tascam 388 is not going to get you "that 'sound' of analog". It will get you that sound of tape hiss, wow and flutter. You should probably look towards an Otari MX5050 1/2" 8-track, or something along those line. 8 tracks on a cassette is not going to be a step in the right direction.

hey thanx, anymore suggestions about this? anyone else? thanx people

[A Reel Person]

Does that help?

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

Does that help?

care to elaborate on that?

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Raw-Tracks

A Tascam 388 is not going to get you "that 'sound' of analog". It will get you that sound of tape hiss, wow and flutter. You should probably look towards an Otari MX5050 1/2" 8-track, or something along those line. 8 tracks on a cassette is not going to be a step in the right direction.

Really depends on what you mean by "that sound" but we're talking about the TASCAM 388, open reel/mixer design and not cassette .. right ? If you still say that the 388 will get you tape hiss, wow, flutter etc .. then I think you've been listenning to a different 388 than I have .... The Otari is a whole different animal and deserves all the praise but to spit on the 388 is uncalled for IMHO.

~Daniel

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by marathonman

care to elaborate on that?

Yeah, take a listen to some cuts done on the 388:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=1609&alid=-1

(1) God
(2) Long Time Gone
(3) Love Me Do

...among others by Dave (A Reel Person)

(Hope you didn't mind me steppin' in, Dave ?)

~Daniel

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Yeah, take a listen to some cuts done on the 388:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=1609&alid=-1

(1) God
(2) Long Time Gone
(3) Love Me Do

...among others by Dave (A Reel Person)

(Hope you didn't mind me steppin' in, Dave ?)

~Daniel

wow that was some good stuff i heard, very interesting stuff, that was what i was looking for! any other stuff recorded on 388? i was thinkin in the R&B motown etc... if u guys could actually tell me bout that. and keep the discussion going guys. thanks alot people!

[marathonman]

hey guys i had a few questions in the thread i started but no one answered but i'll ask one of them now...


i plan on recording from a tape machine and then dumping it into sonar 3 producer edtion. my question is, will that 'sound' of analog get lost in the process of being dumped into sonar?

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by marathonman

hey guys i had a few questions in the thread i started but no one answered but i'll ask one of them now...


i plan on recording from a tape machine and then dumping it into sonar 3 producer edtion. my question is, will that 'sound' of analog get lost in the process of being dumped into sonar?

While I'm not well versed on PC recording, I know that it all depends on your sound card and at what resolution you are "dumping" all this at and also on your open reel machine. I figure that anything at 16bit (CD quality) or above should not lose out too much but then again it all depends on your machine. Not all analog recorders are created equal or sound the same, you know ..

~Daniel

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by marathonman

wow that was some good stuff i heard, very interesting stuff, that was what i was looking for! any other stuff recorded on 388? i was thinkin in the R&B motown etc... if u guys could actually tell me bout that. and keep the discussion going guys. thanks alot people!

I think you could "extract" from the above sound examples of what your typical 388 can sound like on most material and so I don't think it neccessary to demo a specific type of music to know that the 388 can pretty much capture it all, provided good talent is available to not only play but record. You'll find the 388 (and its EQ section) can provide lots of HI FI sound, great headroom and absence of tape hiss with dbx on. (Hint: Don't push the meters into the extreme red continuosly - it's not neccessary and dbx doesn't like that ). To get a specific "sound" flavor from the 388 or any tape recorder, I feel it all depends on careful mic sellection, placement, room sound (or reverb), EQ (if neccessary), and even the type of tape you use and set up your recorder for.

Honestly, if I were recommending a good intro to analog recording, I'd get me an IN GOOD CONDITION TASCAM 388, preferably a local pickup where you can actually inspect beforehand (knowing what to look for) and avoiding shipping damage and idiot sellers who can't pack.

Now, if you wanna get stupid basic analog (just like me ) then get yerself a stand alone 4 track open reel recorder like the TEAC 3440 or TASCAM 34B and record direct.

Daniel

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Really depends on what you mean by "that sound" but we're talking about the TASCAM 388, open reel/mixer design and not cassette .. right ? If you still say that the 388 will get you tape hiss, wow, flutter etc .. then I think you've been listenning to a different 388 than I have .... The Otari is a whole different animal and deserves all the praise but to spit on the 388 is uncalled for IMHO.

~Daniel

I apologize, I actually thought you were referring to the Tascam 238 when I read Mark7's post.
http://www.stack.nl/~erwint/multi/tascam.html

That is what I based my comments on. I did a little research and learned that I was wrong. Never was any good at remembering model numbers.

The 388 looks like it might be a pretty cool machine. What speed does it run at? 7.5ips?

[Hi_Flyer]

Originally Posted by cjacek

While I'm not well versed on PC recording, I know that it all depends on your sound card and at what resolution you are "dumping" all this at and also on your open reel machine. I figure that anything at 16bit (CD quality) or above should not lose out too much but then again it all depends on your machine. Not all analog recorders are created equal or sound the same, you know ..

~Daniel

you're probably going to want to go higher than 16-bit... Of course any interface that would give you 8 analog ins will probably be in 24-bit anyway. Do you have an interface in mind to make the transfer to digital? I've been doing something similar with a 4 track cassette deck and a Delta 44, and recently I've added a second Delta 44 to make transfers from a tascam 688 (8 track cassette) for mixing in N-Track.

[A Reel Person]

I'll simply say that analog is analog. You'll get the analog sound from cassette tape, 1/4" or 1/2", however much tape width your budget will bear.

The 388's a fine machine, which is 1/4" tape @ 7.5ips. As cassette goes, a 246 or 488mkII would be a fine choice, as well as the 688 or 238. I have nothing against the 1/2" 8-track format, in fact I think it's an awesome choice, with very robust sound. However, I don't think it's your minimum baseline for quality. 1/4" or cassette is fine, in my book. As I said, you get as much analog as your budget will bear, and do with it what you can.

I don't buy into the god-given supremacy of digital,... myth. I believe it's all what you do with it. A lot of the final sounds you'll hear on any given recording are as much due to the technique and experience of the engineer, as much as the basic format.

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

A lot of the final sounds you'll hear on any given recording are as much due to the technique and experience of the engineer, as much as the basic format.

I would take that a step further to say that the engineer has more to do with the quality of the final product than the medium he is recording to. I think that is something the original poster should consider before he spends money on analog equipment, thinking that analog is going to help his situation.

Originally Posted by marathonman

....its like you imagine the sound coming out one way and its nowhere close.

This may be the main problem. You should not be imagining what the sound will be when it comes back from the recorder, especially in the digital realm. You should be sending the sound you want to achieve to the recorder in the first place.

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by cjacek

While I'm not well versed on PC recording, I know that it all depends on your sound card and at what resolution you are "dumping" all this at and also on your open reel machine. I figure that anything at 16bit (CD quality) or above should not lose out too much but then again it all depends on your machine. Not all analog recorders are created equal or sound the same, you know ..

~Daniel

good stuff, and yes my resolution will be 24 bit.


and everyone else, i truly appreciate all the replies, i've soaked up everything and yes its not all bout what you're recording to but also how you record it and what you do with the recorded material(mixing). I would say i'm not bad at mixing at all, i have a fair amount of experience so i still hold my opinion about digital recording. i have never recorded something to sound natural, meaning record the signal and then compress it and it should be 85-90% there; thats what i think should happen most of the time. In my situation with digital recording, i can spend hours, days tweaking. All the plugins(waves diamond etc) wont help. I've just now began to hear compression and other things and its a cool thing but now i'm much more obsessed with everything. That could be a good or bad thing. anyway thanx

here's a question, this local guy has decided to sell me a tascam 464, he's the original owner. He was asking for 200 and i told him 125 and he agreed. He said 3 of the 4 channels work, so 1 is not working. I dont see the problem in that since i just want to record vocals. He even said he'd show me how to work it and show me that it actually works...

so with that, do you think this is a good choice?


thnx

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by cjacek

I think you could "extract" from the above sound examples of what your typical 388 can sound like on most material and so I don't think it neccessary to demo a specific type of music to know that the 388 can pretty much capture it all, provided good talent is available to not only play but record. You'll find the 388 (and its EQ section) can provide lots of HI FI sound, great headroom and absence of tape hiss with dbx on. (Hint: Don't push the meters into the extreme red continuosly - it's not neccessary and dbx doesn't like that ). To get a specific "sound" flavor from the 388 or any tape recorder, I feel it all depends on careful mic sellection, placement, room sound (or reverb), EQ (if neccessary), and even the type of tape you use and set up your recorder for.

Honestly, if I were recommending a good intro to analog recording, I'd get me an IN GOOD CONDITION TASCAM 388, preferably a local pickup where you can actually inspect beforehand (knowing what to look for) and avoiding shipping damage and idiot sellers who can't pack.

Now, if you wanna get stupid basic analog (just like me ) then get yerself a stand alone 4 track open reel recorder like the TEAC 3440 or TASCAM 34B and record direct.

Daniel

thanx alot that was very helpful.

i'll repeat a question for u guys again...


here's a question, this local guy has decided to sell me a tascam 464, he's the original owner. He was asking for $200 and i told him $125 and he agreed. He said 3 of the 4 channels work, so 1 is not working. I dont see the problem in that since i just want to record vocals. He even said he'd show me how to work it and show me that it actually works...

and another guy who wants to sell me a 388 for $175. how bout that?

so with that, which do you guys recommend if say both were in good condition...



also, for you experienced musicians/engineers here, can you hear the difference between a digital recording and analog/tape recording? i mean seriously can your trained ears capable of that? or is it something so obvious that any average person with no musical background can hear?

[Mark7]

If you want to hear some stunningly good recordings done on a humble 488 and 244 click here.

[A Reel Person]

as on any other day you might get a fully functional 464 for the same price, on Ebay.

[marathonman]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

as on any other day you might get a fully functional 464 for the same price, on Ebay.

how bout the 388 for 175?

[A Reel Person]

Provided it was a fully functional unit! Local pickup is best, because at nearly 90 lbs, it's a bear to ship!

[Hi_Flyer]

464s were the precursor to the 424s right? sorry $125 doesn't sound like a great deal, you could probably grab a 424 with 4 working channels for the same price on ebay... I think a brand new one will run just over $300.