looking for info on a Tascam 688

[Hi_Flyer]

hello, great forum ya got here...

My buddy just picked up an old Tascam 688 , and I'm looking for advice/opinions on reliability, sound quality, etc... My concern is that the tape is so narrow, the sound quality won't be all that great. Maybe an all-in-one reel-to-reel on 1/4" tape like a Tascam 388 would have been a better investment?

some other general questions/concerns: Is it worth investing in better mics and preamps? Will you be able to hear the difference between a cheap Behringer condenser and something better like Rode NT5 with a cassette 8 track? Also (and this is important!) what should we know about servicing these machines? Would recording with the pitch control turned all the way up (to increase tape speed) increase sound quality? or would this be advisable?

The plan is to track with the Tascam, then dump into my PC via a pair of Delta 44s to mix in N-track. analog tracking, digital mixing seems to be the best of both worlds...

Also, if anybody has a complete manual in .pdf or something like that, could you drop me a line??

thanks.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Hi_Flyer

hello, great forum ya got here...

My buddy just picked up an old Tascam 688 , and I'm looking for advice/opinions on reliability, sound quality, etc... My concern is that the tape is so narrow, the sound quality won't be all that great. Maybe an all-in-one reel-to-reel on 1/4" tape like a Tascam 388 would have been a better investment?

I was never a fan of those 8 tracks on 1/8" tape type of deals. The sound's thinner than on your usual TASCAM 244, 234, 246 etc ... and that also means dbx is most essential, like it is for the other cassette models I mentioned, perhaps even more so on the 688. Plus on the 688, dropouts are an even greater concern. While I feel the sound of 4 tracks placed on 1/8 tape can sound very good with dbx on, 8 tracks on that same width of tape is really pushing it. Yes, the 388 would have been a better investment IMHO. This is not to say the 688 sounds will sound bad ... I've heard recordings done on a TASCAM 238, which reportedly has the same transport section as the 688 and the sound was very good with high S/N ratio. A bit thin, but good and clear nevertheless.

some other general questions/concerns: Is it worth investing in better mics and preamps? Will you be able to hear the difference between a cheap Behringer condenser and something better like Rode NT5 with a cassette 8 track?

I'm not sure if the 688 has phantom power or not (for your condensors) and in which case I'd check that and if it doesn't then get a ROLLS phantom power supply. No mic preamps neccessary. That would be overkill for that type of recorder. Good sufficient preamps on the 688. You will always be able to hear different "flavours" of which ever mic you use but it'd be kinda tough to fully appreciate a condensor on such narrow tape real estate. Still, a condensor will sound clearer than a dynamic. Better yet, mic placement is more important. Recording technique (and mic placement) are more critical than which mic you use.

Also (and this is important!) what should we know about servicing these machines? Would recording with the pitch control turned all the way up (to increase tape speed) increase sound quality? or would this be advisable?

Servicing as in "maintenance" ? If yes, then all you need to be sure of is that the entire tape path, heads etc ... are sparkling clean before each recording session. Use 99% alcohol to clean the heads and other metal parts of the tape path area. Also make sure the pinch roller is clean and grips the tape easily and has not hardened. Caig Labs have a rubber cleaner that you can use (make sure you use it correctly). Demagnatizing your heads is probably a good idea .. I say "probably" because I never found a need to and can't take the risk that if power goes off in my neighborhood and if I'm in the middle of demaging, that I'll permanantly fuck up my recorder's heads ...

The plan is to track with the Tascam, then dump into my PC via a pair of Delta 44s to mix in N-track. analog tracking, digital mixing seems to be the best of both worlds...

Great idea!

Also, if anybody has a complete manual in .pdf or something like that, could you drop me a line??

Just call (not email) TASCAM with a credit card in hand. They'll supply you with a copy for little $$.

~Daniel

[A Reel Person]

but the preamps are decent.

A Tascam 388 would be a much higher level of machine, and would have correspondingly better sound quality than the 688, but the 688 should give acceptable and decent sound.

[Hi_Flyer]

hmm... so the thin sound, I don't imagine any guys in this forum would know any tricks to fatten up the sound in the digital realm, eh? After all, I will be able to use VST and DirectX plug-ins when mixing in n-track...

The 688 does not have phantom power so we would need something like the power supply that you mention... The condensor mic issue has me kinda puzzled, I'm just not sure which direction to go in. After reading alot on here and some other BBS's, it seems like a better decision to skip the entry level cheapo stuff, and just get something a little better from the start as it will take longer to outgrow something in the semi-pro range. But I guess I'm kind of wondering how good the 688 really is... I don't have much hands-on experience with condensor mics, the extent of my home recording has been with dynamic mics-SM58s/57s and the like. Primarily we are looking for drum overhead mics as SM57s don't do much for cymbals...

Anyway, yes I meant "maintenance" as far servicing. Degaussing seems like a good idea, any idea where I could buy a de-gausser? I've been told to get them at Radio Shack, but none of the stores near me seem to carry them anymore... anybody know where I can find a good deal online (link)? Also, what about aligning the heads and calibrated test tapes and all of that? Or do you not need to worry about that stuff until you cross over into the reel-to reel realm? I can't imagine where you would find a calibrated test cassette tape anyway...

Man, those 388s look cool. I may try to pick up one of those for myself somewhere down the line if the price is right... Are they much harder to maintain than the 688? When you say "much higher level of machine" can you be more specific? I understand the difference in tape speed and size, I'm just looking for info on cool, old analog gear...

[A Reel Person]

The 388 is a higher calibre machine than the 688, & that should be taken for granted, but the 688 is hardly what you'd call entry-level cheapo gear. That totally misses the point. The MF-P01 is entry level cheapo gear, and the 688 was the high techiest Portastudio ever made, and there's a world of difference between the two.

Why wonder what the 688 can do, or ask a bunch of hypotheticals on a bbs? I'd guarantee, by reading your posts, that the 688 is quite a bit more production power than your knowledge could even bring to bear. Why don't you spend some time, read the manual & get the hands on experience, before discounting the 688 for something better? Then, you could tell us a thing or two about the 688.

Of the true user reviews of the cassette based 8-track machines, such as the 488mkII/238/688, I've heard nothing but rave reviews of how great they sound, which was much better than you'd think a cassette-8-track could do.

Most of the 688's wonderment of power is in it's mixer section, with built in midi-tape-sychronizer, not necessarily that it packs 8-tracks onto cassette. However, mixing skills are not purchased in a box or off the shelf. There is a world of mixing technique that bbs's can only scratch the surface of. I could lay out a dozen of my best mixing tips, but that would be getting ahead of the game. Most of what you'll produce on any recorder will be the sum of your experience of real world mixing and recording, not what some bbs users advise and/or the next new gear purchase.

Stick with the SM57/58 & 688 and make your best recordings with what's at your disposal. To assess that the 688 doesn't have phantom power is, again, missing the point.

Sorry for the tone of this post, but it's the whole mentality of constantly missing the point, that I'm trying to nip in the bud. If you got the 388, which is admittedly a higher notch up from the 688, you'd still have the same lack of basis on how to use it. You need the experience before you can make a good mix, or a sound judgment on what's good recording equipment,... or relatively speaking, what's good enough.

I don't hear anyone on these boards making gold or platinum records, even the self aggrandizing "pros", so take e'thing you read on a recording bbs "with a grain of salt", and put it in perspective.

If I told you my best recording tool was the SM57, would it mean anything? If I told you that the 688 was the pinnacle of Portastudio technology, with the only exception being the 388, would it matter? If some people think the PC is god's gift to recording, and on the other hand I hate PC recording more than anything, is it relevant?

You use and make the best recordings with what you have. There have been many good recordings made with the likes of SM57's, 688's, and if you want to keep referring to it,... 388's.

Just press the red button & twiddle some knobs until you get your best sound. Go with it. A good recording is more in the learning of what works, and the listening skills thereof, than in any harware (or software) design.

Sorry dude. My rant is over. Good luck.

[cjacek]

Gotta be on board with what Dave said. I mean, it makes total sense, especially if the original poster had not even experimented with the 688 and all of its gazillion functions! The 688 is certainly not a cheap design and in the hands of an experienced recordist can perform wonders.

Daniel

[Hi_Flyer]

well, to be honest I would probably not end up using either of these machines to mix, they would be for tracking only. Mixing will be done in a digital platform, so I probably wouldn't be taking advantage of the 688's high tech mixer. similarly, MIDI isn't much use either since we're tracking our bands.

I'm not a complete newbie to recording. I've had a Tascam 424 for years, which isn't much compared to the gear that many of you have, but its limitations force you to get creative with recording techniques and mixing. My band has recorded in pro and semi-pro studios too, and I've paid alot of attention to the engineers every time. Now, we have the means to start acumulating some better gear for ourselves (which will take a long time), so I'm just trying to make a game plan.

[Hi_Flyer]

Originally Posted by Hi_Flyer

The 688 does not have phantom power so we would need something like the power supply that you mention... The condensor mic issue has me kinda puzzled, I'm just not sure which direction to go in. After reading alot on here and some other BBS's, it seems like a better decision to skip the entry level cheapo stuff, and just get something a little better from the start as it will take longer to outgrow something in the semi-pro range. But I guess I'm kind of wondering how good the 688 really is... I don't have much hands-on experience with condensor mics, the extent of my home recording has been with dynamic mics-SM58s/57s and the like. Primarily we are looking for drum overhead mics as SM57s don't do much for cymbals...

speaking of missing the point, I think maybe you guys are missing the point here, although thats probably because I worded this poorly... The bolded section is in reference to a condensor mic purchase, not the 688. I didn't mean to insinuate that the 688 is cheapo gear, rather, I'm trying to determine if it would be a wiser decision to buy some slightly better condensors or a $60 Behringer (these are for drum overs, by the way...).

[Hi_Flyer]

If you don't believe that I've mixed before, here's an old mp3 from my Tascam 424:

http://www.rockforfreaks.com/teen.mp3

my band, me on guitar.

[A Reel Person]

The 424 is okay in my book. The 688's way better than that!

I'm glad you have some basic knowledge to apply from home recording and big-studio recording.

If you want to track to the 688 and mix in the 'puter, that's okay with me. There's a lot of front-end mixing that can be done with the 688's mixer on the input-side of the recording, which the 688's mixer will play a big role.

It is a good idea to skip the cheapo entry-level stuff, and you did well by skipping the MF-p01 and MR8, and getting the 688, which is topline gear,... of it's day.

Yes, get yourself another mic, if you like. If it requires phantom power, make sure it's a model that will take an internal battery, or purchase a separate phantom power supply. I think getting a whole external preamp that includes phantom power might be overkill, because the 688's preamps are decent enough.

I have the 688, too, and I regard it as a super machine,... although I don't have a lot of practical experience or recorded examples to share,... as yet TBD. Believe me, if it was not a worthy machine, I would not have it. That may not mean anything to you, but just trust me on that.

Sorry if I miss the point, too! I try to make it up on the turnaround. No offense, okay?

[Hi_Flyer]

no offense, just trying to gather opinions here... I'm gonna be using the 688 for awhile and surely I'll be forming my own opinions in time.

Also, I really would appreciate it if somebody could help me out with my questions about 688 maintenance, I know that is an important issue with analog gear...

[A Reel Person]

as the effective track width of each track is very tiny, and it takes only a small fleck of oxide to corrupt the head/tape contact. Clean with a swab and 99% alcohol, and use moderate finger pressure. Clean the capstan, too, while you're at it.

Degaussing is something that should be done after every [number] of hours. It's fairly important, too.

[Hi_Flyer]

thanks. This website has cassette alignment tape, do you recommend trying to align the heads on the 688? Hell, for that matter, should I align the heads on my 424 while I'm at it?

http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/parts.html

[A Reel Person]

See:
http://www.teac.co.jp/testmedia/eng/...e_list.html#01
MXT Series (Designed for high speed double decks)
MXT-1161 (Specified in the 238 Service Manual).
3180µs & 35µs
63 ~ 14kHz
-10dB

[Hi_Flyer]

hmm... so how do you order that? It doesn't look like you can order it from the website ... Is this something I should be able to learn how to do myself (properly)? Or is this best left to a service technician?

[A Reel Person]

MXT-1161 Frequency 3180µs & 35µs 63 ~ 14kHz -10dB (for 238/688/488mkII)
=============================
Other Teac test tapes for Portastudios:
MTT-356 Frequency 3180µs & 70µs 31.5Hz ~ 14kHz -24dB (for Porta One)
MXT-116 Frequency 3180µs & 70µs 63 ~ 14kHz -10dB (for 244/234/246)
MXT-112 Level 3180µs & 70µs 315Hz 0dB (for 244/234/246)


7733 Telegraph Road, Montebello, California 90640,
U.S.A./ Tel: (1 323) 727-7643 Fax: (1 323) 727-7612
E-Mail: Cyamaguchi@teac.com

[acorec]

Originally Posted by Hi_Flyer

hello, great forum ya got here...

My buddy just picked up an old Tascam 688 , and I'm looking for advice/opinions on reliability, sound quality, etc... My concern is that the tape is so narrow, the sound quality won't be all that great. Maybe an all-in-one reel-to-reel on 1/4" tape like a Tascam 388 would have been a better investment?

some other general questions/concerns: Is it worth investing in better mics and preamps? Will you be able to hear the difference between a cheap Behringer condenser and something better like Rode NT5 with a cassette 8 track? Also (and this is important!) what should we know about servicing these machines? Would recording with the pitch control turned all the way up (to increase tape speed) increase sound quality? or would this be advisable?

The plan is to track with the Tascam, then dump into my PC via a pair of Delta 44s to mix in N-track. analog tracking, digital mixing seems to be the best of both worlds...

Also, if anybody has a complete manual in .pdf or something like that, could you drop me a line??

thanks.

The cassette format for 8 track recording was stretching the limits a whole lot. The 8-track on 1/4" was at least useable. The best use of this thing is for a mixing board and actually recording to a DAW. TASCAM never were known for their brainpower and time has proven them to have lost any decent product they ever came out with. The only really good products they had were the 80-8 and some of the larger mixing consoles. The home stuff was great for putting them ideas down, but ideas that were to see a pro recording studio later on down the road. I remember when these things came out and was not impressed with them when they were new. Time certainly has not made them any better.

Alignment-This deck has two heads. Aligning a two head deck is very, very hard to do right. The pro-decks (and some home decks) have three heads. These are MUCH easier to align. If you have never aligned a deck before I highly advise you to pay for someone to do it and maybe they will show you how. If you go in and try this on a two head deck, you may *very quickly* have a non-working deck. Make sure that you have a place that can do this for you *before* you start twiddling pots.

[A Reel Person]

cassette is a budget format.

[Mark7]

Originally Posted by Hi_Flyer

If you don't believe that I've mixed before, here's an old mp3 from my Tascam 424:

http://www.rockforfreaks.com/teen.mp3

my band, me on guitar.

That was surprisingly loud







Rock AND roll!

[Hi_Flyer]

yeah sorry about the volume on that mp3, I ran that threw some mastering software before I really knew much about mastering. Its a little bit too loud and compressed, although I think it suits the style of music...

Back to the 688... Head alignment, calibration and all of that is starting to look like its a bit beyond my abilities at this point. I've been looking around for a tech, I called one of only two authorized tascam service centers in my area, and they kind of pissed me off. The person that I spoke to on the phone wouldn't even let me talk to a technician, and she wouldn't tell me if I would be able to speak to a technician when I dropped the unit off. So, I have no idea if the techs in this place could do it properly, it could very well be a wase of money... Anybody on this board know a tech in the Pittsburgh area that could do a decent job? I'll have to start asking around myself, most of the studios have gone digital, but some of these guys have been around for awhile so they must remember the analog days.

I would REALLY like to find a good tech to work on this machine, especially since it is older and it shows signs of use. I have to imagine that its only a matter of time before a motor or head needs replaced, or a belt goes... It would be even better if he could calibrate it and bias for the tape that we use.

So as far as general/basic maintenance, I assume most analog guys really only concern themselves with de-magnetizing and cleaning, they leave the other stuff to the techs?

[A Reel Person]

I think it would be worth it to get it fixed, no matter how many people you call. TEAC in Montebello won't say that. Tascam fixes their own gear, even older gear. You'd have to ship it to 'em.

[Hi_Flyer]

no belts? how about a Flux Capacitor?

[A Reel Person]

it was my mistake. The 688 has a belt drive. I was mistaking it for the 238 DD.

Eh,... belts & other wear may be service issues, but I'd not worry too much about it unless I had audible problems, like wow & flutter, lack of gain or high freq response. On the other hand, having a checkout and service w/calibration never hurt, either.

DIY on calibration is a real commitment. That's why tech time goes at a price.

It would be worth finding a tech, IMO. Again, YMMV. {Your Mileage May Vary}

Pls catch my edit, above!

[Sexy Heather]

Hi Flyer, how are things progressing with your 688? I have had my 688 since October 1990, and recorded extensively with it. Of course a cassette will never have the sound quality of a reel-based recorder, such as the 388. That said, the 688 remains my favorite Tascam Portastudio product, ever, period. I am fully aware of all of their products from the 144 forward, as I really wanted a 144 in 1980 when I was 17! I finally got a Porta One in 1988 and used it heavily until I got my 688 in 1990. I also got a 424 in 1992, which I still have and use to this day. Last summer, I picked up a Tascam 564, and I have begun working with the MD format lately. Given that I live in an apartment that is crammed with gear and over 30 computers (!), and my band has a small (10 x 20) rehearsal room, the Portastudios really work well for me. Someday, I'd like to have the room for a 388 or something larger, but over the past 17 years the Tascam Portastudios have served my creative needs well. Everyone has their preferences, abilities and opinions, but all that really matters is what works for you, and what you enjoy using. That said, please let us know how your 688 is working out for you. Even veteran 688 users, such as myself, can learn something from someone new to the machine. Everyone's perspective is relevant.
Heather

[monty]

Originally Posted by Sexy Heather

Hi Flyer, how are things progressing with your 688? I have had my 688 since October 1990, and recorded extensively with it. Of course a cassette will never have the sound quality of a reel-based recorder, such as the 388. That said, the 688 remains my favorite Tascam Portastudio product, ever, period. I am fully aware of all of their products from the 144 forward, as I really wanted a 144 in 1980 when I was 17! I finally got a Porta One in 1988 and used it heavily until I got my 688 in 1990. I also got a 424 in 1992, which I still have and use to this day. Last summer, I picked up a Tascam 564, and I have begun working with the MD format lately. Given that I live in an apartment that is crammed with gear and over 30 computers (!), and my band has a small (10 x 20) rehearsal room, the Portastudios really work well for me. Someday, I'd like to have the room for a 388 or something larger, but over the past 17 years the Tascam Portastudios have served my creative needs well. Everyone has their preferences, abilities and opinions, but all that really matters is what works for you, and what you enjoy using. That said, please let us know how your 688 is working out for you. Even veteran 688 users, such as myself, can learn something from someone new to the machine. Everyone's perspective is relevant.
Heather

Wow...time flies, eh...