cracked crash

[tilinmyowngrave]

Well, I got most of my cymbals used. I didn't have a problem with them at all when i first got em. They were some of the best cymbals I have heard (Paiste signatures)... but after my friend borrowed my 17" power crash for a gig, the crack (that wuz already there, but didn't affect the sound) has started to rattle. Knowing him, he probably threw em around and fucked aroudn with them (last time Im letting him borrow shit)... SOOOO heres the question... is there any way i can fix my crash so the crack doesnt rattle? the rattle isnt too evident, but when i hear it, it drives me nuts. PLEASE HELP!!

[StarvingEyes]

i've heard that you can drill a hole with a drill at the end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading. i dont think that will cure your rattle, but it'll stop it from getting worse...

[cobradenim]

It's time for a new cymbal. Once they crack, they're garbage. Drilling a hole doesn't solve the problem. it'll continue to crack, then the crack will split and pretty soon you'll have pieces missing out of the cymbal. Needless to say, it'll also start to sound like shit.

[PhilGood]

Drilling a hole will delay the cracking for a while until you can afford a replacement, and YES, you will eventually need to replace it. I suggest going ahead with drilling the hole. If the crack is heading toward the center, you can use heavy duty tin snips to cut a triange to the hole and remove the cracked area. This is a temporary fix. The crack will start again at some point, but who knows when. It will depend on how you play it. The larger the hole and the smoother the edge will also determine how long it will last.

[tilinmyowngrave]

so shud i just take a drill and drill a hole at the end of the crack? wudnt the heat caused by the drill damage the cymbal? how shud i drill it? and I dont wanna replace it, cuz it sounds perfectly fine, other than the few times when it does have a slight rattle.

[MadAudio]

Try to drill just a little past the crack in the direction it's heading. But like everyone else said, this is only a temporary fix. There's no way to save that cymbal in the long run. I've lost 2 that way myself.

[msmales555]

How big is the crack? It sounds like your is around 1/2" at this point from what you've said. Anyways, I've had lots of luck fixing my crashes. I've been playing a 18" paiste sig. full crash that I fixed for the last two years!

The following procedure works great for cracks that are under 1/8" long. The smaller the crack, the better your chances of it sticking around.

Get some sand paper. I usually buy a multi-pack with coarse, medium, and fine grit papers. Start sanding down the crack with the sand paper. Sand out the entire crack (this can take around an hour or longer depending on the length of the crack). I usually use the coarse paper for the majority of the sanding and then I use the finer papers to smooth out the metal and finish it off. When sanding the crack make sure that you create a smooth, gradual curve instead of a sudden, sanded chunk. After that, you are done. Voila! your cymbal should live on. Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't smash the cymbal right in the spot where you sanded out the crack. I have tried this on about 10 crashes and 2 rides. All were either Paiste 2002's or Signatures. Only one crash continued to crack after I sanded it down. It also was the only one with a crack over a 1/4" long. I'm sure it would work on other brands and series, but it's probably safe to say that this technique would work better on larger cymbals (crashes,rides, not splashes and hats), however, it probably still works well as long as you are starting with a small crack.

In short, you can save your cracked cymbals. However, it is a lot of hard work and it is necessary that you stop playing the cymbal the moment that you see the crack starting beacuse the smaller the crack, the better when tryign to perserve the cymbal's sound and longevity.

[freQonavitch]

Try smashing the crash on your friends head and see if it rattles (just kidding!!!!) As already stated, drilling a hole will only help stop the crack from running to the bell. I have never been able to save a crash from a crack. Sorry to hear about this..

Remember..... Crack Kills

[tilinmyowngrave]

nah, i wudnt smash the cymbal on his head. i wud fukin use it as a frisbee and hope the edges r sharp enough to cut his throat. see, since the crack incident, he has doen a whole lot of shit to piss me off (like cheating on his girlfriend, who iev been good friends with for years). so i wud kill him with this cymbal. and its a pwoer crash, so its nice and heavy. But i noticed the crack wuznt as evident when i got back form school today... ionno, it seems the two pieces that are cracked have actually gotten back in place, so it doesnt really rattle... which really pisses me off, considering i spent so much fukin time worrying. yea, maybe I may have to replace it, but the crack hasnt grown since it first appeared (2 months ago)... so i would say it will last me for maybe a few more months. I take good care of my cymbals.

[msmales555]

I'm telling you, try sanding it down if it isn't too big. It takes an hour or two, but it is sooooo worth it when you don't have to buy a new cymbal. Your crack will only get bigger and you will most likely hear the rattling again. Why would you just let your cymbal continue to crack?

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by msmales555

I'm telling you, try sanding it down if it isn't too big. It takes an hour or two, but it is sooooo worth it when you don't have to buy a new cymbal. Your crack will only get bigger and you will most likely hear the rattling again. Why would you just let your cymbal continue to crack?

You could probably save time with this technique if you used a dremmel and a hefty sized grinding stone. You'd have to hold it pretty steady so it woudn't slip, then finish it off with fine sand paper to make it smooth.

Hmmmmm....

[Anders]

i think you have to buy a new one, but you dont have to throw away the cracked cymbal! i have a cracked 16 inch crash and i use it as a crash ride, it has a really thrashy fucked up sound but i think its ok for thrash metal and that sort of music. be creative!!!

[MichaelM]

Originally Posted by tilinmyowngrave

so shud i just take a drill and drill a hole at the end of the crack? wudnt the heat caused by the drill damage the cymbal? how shud i drill it? and I dont wanna replace it, cuz it sounds perfectly fine, other than the few times when it does have a slight rattle.

The cymbal is cracked, ie already damaged. Drill slowly by not putting too much pressure on it so it doesn't heat up as much if you're worried about it. It sucks, but eventually you will have to replace it, and the crack will eventually get worse.

Hey you might be able to wreck it in a good way by making some wierd effect cymbal sound out of it.

[tilinmyowngrave]

kk, ill get the bassist to sand it down. lol

[MadAudio]

Actually the sanding idea seems pretty good despite the amount of work involved. Good cymbals are not cheap.

[tilinmyowngrave]

no, good cymbal are not cheap. especially Paiste signatures. Of course, if i tried to fix it, it would be as good as dead. fortunately, the only bassist i know loves drums and is also very handy, so he should eb able to fix it without incident.

[elil]

What is it with Paistes anyway? I've always used a matching set of 16" and 18" signature crashes; they really have the best sound I could find (esp. for recording), but I had to replace them every couple years due to the cracking. They are definately not cheap.

Either way, when I was in Junior High our drum department had a few cymbals which were cut (presumably due to previous cracks) straight across the cymbal and smoothed out. Excuse the ASCII art (you'll have to imagine the spaces, becuase this forum doesn't want to leave them in)... but, they looked something like this:

______
/ \
/ \
| . |
| |
\ _ _ _ _ _ / << - Cut
\_______/

They were mostly larger cymbals, and they still sounded fine. In the few years I was there I never saw one of them crack. This is the only place I saw this, and nobody I've ever spoken to knows what I'm talking about. Has anyone here ever seen this before?

I was going to hand one of my old ones over to a contractor friend who was going to try and cut it across and "weld" the edge to make is smooth.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by elil

What is it with Paistes anyway? I've always used a matching set of 16" and 18" signature crashes; they really have the best sound I could find (esp. for recording), but I had to replace them every couple years due to the cracking. They are definately not cheap.

Paistes are stamped from sheet bronze so the grain of the metal flows in one direction, whereas Zildjian and Sabian are all cast into ingots which are rolled out, giving the cymbal a grain which goes in all directions. That's why they are stronger than Paiste.

Originally Posted by elil

I was going to hand one of my old ones over to a contractor friend who was going to try and cut it across and "weld" the edge to make is smooth.

For the love of God, do not do this!! I had a cymbal that was cracked around the bell and a friend of mine decided to weld or braze it with a bronze rod. After three hits it shattered like glass. The welding changes the tempering of the metal, which is the worst thing you can do.

[Supercreep]

Once a cymbal is cracked it's done. Dead. It will never function the same again. It can't be "repaired". You might be able to live with the sound, but it is no longer the thing that it was.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by elil

What is it with Paistes anyway? I've always used a matching set of 16" and 18" signature crashes; they really have the best sound I could find (esp. for recording), but I had to replace them every couple years due to the cracking. They are definately not cheap.

It's how you guys are striking them. I've played Paiste exclusively for almost 20 years and have never broken one. (incedently I'm 6'2" and weigh 250 Lbs and play with Marching sticks. I use Signature & Signature Sound Formula Full series (lighter than the "Power" style) and 2002's. You have to strike a glancing blow across thge bow of the cymbal, and make sure the cymbal can swing freely on the cymbal post.

Also, your crash cymbals should be aproximately about the same height as your ears while seated on the throne. too much higher than "seated" head level, and you start hitting harder because you don't hear them as well.

Also, you can take that cymbal to a machinist and have them cut it, and if the crak is only about 1/2" long, they can actually cut the cymbal in all the way around and just make it a little smaller, but if they have to remove more than 1" universally - the cymbal will sound a little funny because it would now be, in this case, a 16" cymbal....but because the mass of the original cymbal has changed, it will just sound a little different.

I've even seen guys who were machinists regroove cymbals. One guy used to buy cymabls with little break in them, cut them down, and removed the original grooves, and regroove them with a set of hand tools.

There was even a website about this.


Tim

[Reggaesoldier]

Originally Posted by Supercreep

Once a cymbal is cracked it's done. Dead. It will never function the same again. It can't be "repaired". You might be able to live with the sound, but it is no longer the thing that it was.

I'd have to agree. Suck it up and buy a new one.

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Also, your crash cymbals should be aproximately about the same height as your ears while seated on the throne. too much higher than "seated" head level, and you start hitting harder because you don't hear them as well.

I play with my cymbals level to the top of my head and haven't broken a cymbal in 12 years. I've been playing for 24. I use Paiste and I hit hard. The last cymbal I broke was a Sabian.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilGood

I play with my cymbals level to the top of my head and haven't broken a cymbal in 12 years. I've been playing for 24. I use Paiste and I hit hard. The last cymbal I broke was a Sabian.

So, you're right in the range I'm suggesting. I see a lot of young guys today who have to completely extend their arms to hit the cymbals - because the cymbals are like 2 feet above their heads, and they are whacking at them like they have a hammer, and the cymbal will be clamped down so hard that it can't even move. I don't know who it is that started this "style" of playing, but they need to get a good buttstomping over it.

Some guys, like Anton Fig have always [played with their cymbals in the clouds, but it's crazy because you'll wind yup hitting twice as hard as you need to for the same volume level...after a certain point, the cymbal or drum doesn't get any louder - and when you reach that point anything after is wasted motion and energy.

Tim

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

So, you're right in the range I'm suggesting. I see a lot of young guys today who have to completely extend their arms to hit the cymbals - because the cymbals are like 2 feet above their heads, and they are whacking at them like they have a hammer, and the cymbal will be clamped down so hard that it can't even move. I don't know who it is that started this "style" of playing, but they need to get a good buttstomping over it.

Some guys, like Anton Fig have always [played with their cymbals in the clouds, but it's crazy because you'll wind yup hitting twice as hard as you need to for the same volume level...after a certain point, the cymbal or drum doesn't get any louder - and when you reach that point anything after is wasted motion and energy.

Tim

We call that the overhand tennis smash!!

yeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr BOOM!!!

[msmales555]

Originally Posted by Reggaesoldier

I'd have to agree. Suck it up and buy a new one.

I disagree. The cymbal that I pictured above, a few posts back, sounds great and I've been unable to tell a difference between the sanded, repaired version and the original version. Of course over the years it has dried out a little bit, but my repair job didn't change the sound of the cymbal in any noticeable way. Now of course, the crack was small and I repaired it immediately after discovering it, so I would agree with you that you really can't salvage a cymbal with a significantly sized crack in it (i personally feel that cracks larger than a 1/4" are unrepairable using the sanding method). However, if you take a moment to examine your cymabls every now and then and immediately attend to any cracks that are starting, cymbals are certainly repairable. If you want to go out an pay $250 for a new crash, that's fine with me, but don't tell others that there is no hope when I have indeed fixed my own.

Additionally, I haven't cracked a cymbal in quite a while. I previously used 5Bs, but I moved down to a size 5A stick and it has made all the difference. In my previous post I mentioned that I've down this to about a dozen cymbals - I didn't specify that I wasn't the one that cracked most of those. I usually try to buy cymbals with small cracks from people on ebay and then repair them.

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

...after a certain point, the cymbal or drum doesn't get any louder - and when you reach that point anything after is wasted motion and energy.

-so true.