Phil Spector Wall of sound

walters · #1 05-01-2005

1.) What is the Wall of sound?

2.) How do i overdub like the Wall of sound did?

3.) What were Phil Spectors overdub tricks
that he did?

t_chance · #2 05-01-2005

lots'a bodies

SawkenDotCom · #3 05-01-2005

I think it was the last issue of Tape Op where they interviewed a jazz bassist who sat in on alot of those sessions.

She said it was just a combination of having a ton of musicians playing at once and the "Wall of Sound" came from them all bleeding into one another's mics.

I.E.
If you have one bass line, use five bassists playing it the room together with minimal baffles.

She said that towards the end even he was minimalizing the bleed through, though.

ryanlikestorock · #4 05-01-2005

I've read a lot about Spector's sessions. He sometimes had 10-12 people in the studio, then would overdub another session with those same people playing the same thing again... like double-tracking an entire band.

I think for the time, the sound was killer. Really pushing the limits. For today, it's a pretty weak sound. I definitely wouldn't want my albums to sound like that unless it was for some kind of "vintage" effect.

RickW · #5 05-01-2005

From what I understand, not only did he at least double all the musicians, but he added reverb to the entire mix.

chessrock · #6 05-01-2005

I used to sit in on a bunch of Specter's sessions.

I'd give Phil a lesson or two in engineering / producing once in a while.

Yea, he'd beg me over and over: "Chessrock ... please, teach me all of your secrets, and show me your audio tricks."

I got tired of him begging me, so one time I just sat him down and said: "Phil, 'ol buddy ... ya see, it's all in the track count." You see those paltry 23 tracks you're working with there? Child's play. That's not even in to the triple digits yet."

Later, he'd come back to me and say: "Chessrock .. okay, I just added 12 more tracks this afternoon. Will you listen to it? How did I do?"

After which I would procede to say: "12? Is that it? How long were you working on this? Do you mean to tell me that you spent an entire afternoon on this, and all you have to show for it is 12 more tracks? You're going to have to do better than that. Dude, my little 7-year old sister records 12 tracks in less than an hour. Quit being such a panzy."

After my stern rebukes of his laziness and general lack of track count ... Phil quickly went to work devising this "new recording technique" as he called it. And thus, the birth of what we now know as "The wall of Sound."

RickW · #7 05-01-2005

Chess - you are a legend! :-)

Rokket · #8 05-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessrock

I used to sit in on a bunch of Specter's sessions.

I'd give Phil a lesson or two in engineering / producing once in a while.

Yea, he'd beg me over and over: "Chessrock ... please, teach me all of your secrets, and show me your audio tricks."

I got tired of him begging me, so one time I just sat him down and said: "Phil, 'ol buddy ... ya see, it's all in the track count." You see those paltry 23 tracks you're working with there? Child's play. That's not even in to the triple digits yet."

Later, he'd come back to me and say: "Chessrock .. okay, I just added 12 more tracks this afternoon. Will you listen to it? How did I do?"

After which I would procede to say: "12? Is that it? How long were you working on this? Do you mean to tell me that you spent an entire afternoon on this, and all you have to show for it is 12 more tracks? You're going to have to do better than that. Dude, my little 7-year old sister records 12 tracks in less than an hour. Quit being such a panzy."

After my stern rebukes of his laziness and general lack of track count ... Phil quickly went to work devising this "new recording technique" as he called it. And thus, the birth of what we now know as "The wall of Sound."

That explains 63 tracks for a song that was one acoustic guitar and one vocal!

That's how it's done, huh?

chessrock · #9 05-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokket

That explains 63 tracks for a song that was one acoustic guitar and one vocal!

Ah yes ... you must be talking about the time I taught Phil my "stereo-mic'ing of each individal string" technique.

The only problem with that is that we'd get a lot of bleed that way from the other surrounding strings.

And after that, of course you know we'd have to go back and double everything for good measure.

Rokket · #10 05-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessrock

Ah yes ... you must be talking about the time I taught Phil my "stereo-mic'ing of each individal string" technique.

The only problem with that is that we'd get a lot of bleed that way from the other surrounding strings.

And after that, of course you know we'd have to go back and double everything for good measure.

That's the technique, alright!

I tried it myself, but the cheap chinese mic I was using didn't hold up too well. Muddier than the Mississippi in springtime...

I haven't tried to do a stereo image yet...

grn · #11 05-01-2005

man I wish you guys hadn't started joking so that I could complain how much I dislike phil spector and his sound.

walters · #12 05-02-2005

1.) how do you get the Generation loss in bouncing in Digital?

2.) I want to get Generation loss in Digital?

3.) How do i do it ?

grn · #13 05-02-2005

1.) That was really one question that you repeated in number two in the form of a statement with a question mark at the end of it.

2.) You neither want a wall of sound nor generation loss. You could do it by saving the tracks as lower quality files... say 128kbps MP3's... but don't.

scrubs · #14 05-02-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by walters

1.) how do you get the Generation loss in bouncing in Digital?

2.) I want to get Generation loss in Digital?

3.) How do i do it ?

Well, you can't, really. You could send it out through the D/A converters and then back through the A/D converters (perhaps running through some cheap analog equipment in the process, or re-amping through speakers) and re-record it. Alternately, there are degradation and bit-rate converter plugins that simulate what you are going for.

This site has a few VST plugins (click "instruments" and "effects" for plugs) that will really jack with your sound: http://www.tweakbench.com/

strat0tele · #15 05-02-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessrock

Ah yes ... you must be talking about the time I taught Phil my "stereo-mic'ing of each individal string" technique.

The only problem with that is that we'd get a lot of bleed that way from the other surrounding strings.

And after that, of course you know we'd have to go back and double everything for good measure.

Genius. Absolute Genius.

corban · #16 05-02-2005

You know, I used to sit in a bunch of Spector's sessions...

oh shit!

mikecoleman · #17 05-02-2005

spector once toll me that he was often starting fight in clubs and then letting his bodyguard do the job for him ! WoW!!!!

walters · #18 05-02-2005

1.) What is bleeding ?

2.) how to re-create it ?

3.) Bleeding in post production?
how do i do this?

4.) What causes bleeding?

5.) Is bleeding a form of feedbacking?

grn · #19 05-02-2005

you have to start talking like a normal person dude. stop with the lists and the numbering. explain what you're trying to do. bleeding occurs when you're recording say... drums and a guitar and a bit of the guitar comes through on the drum mics. feedback is caused on guitar by sympathetic vibrations. you cannot have "bleeding" in post production unless you fake it and add a hint of another track onto an existing track... which is stupid, you usually want to minimize bleeding unless the room you are in sounds excellent... or for some obscure effect.

DeathKnell · #20 05-02-2005

Guys I've got a question..

whenever I use the bleeding technique, i seem to wake up in the emergency room at the local hospital.

what am i doing wrong?

and my faders are all coagulated and whatnot.. this technique sucks.

walters · #21 05-03-2005

So like Crossfading the channels or tracks together like submixing?
But Bleeding has phase also and distances because mics are on axis
and heights and distances how to recreate this in post production?
Multi-Track bleed through audio tracks how do i do it right ?
So i Control the bleeding of the all the 24 tracks bleeding into one another
i have 24 tracks down right now but i want to be able to bleeding them
all together bleeding is feedbacking and phasing into the next mic it reaches
near first how do i do this please?

corban · #22 05-03-2005

Good sir, please forget about bleeding. It is a bad thing. It is not a mixing technique. It just happens when you record more than one person at a time and other instruments get into one instrument's mic. If you have fifty people recording at the same time in a gorgeous sounding room, then some bleed will happen and it MIGHT sound like the wall of sound, but the important thing there there is that fifty people are recording at the same time. Most of the wall of sound you are looking for was created via careful arrangements, and multi-tracking, and echo chamber. Plus the specific high end recording equipment from the sixties that few people will ever have the privilege of seeing again.

Rather than trying to replicate Spector's sound, maybe consider finding your own sound. Come up with a technique that is yours and make that your specific sound.

tubesrawsom · #23 05-03-2005

1) what is recording?

2) what am i asking?

3) how do i shut me up?

4) how do i do it?

keep asking dumb questions man they rule!!!

ecktronic · #24 05-03-2005

What is generation loss. and this is a serious question by the way!
Is it just when you loose quality by bouncing tracks on analogue tape?

grn · #25 05-03-2005

yes... it's the loss of quality from bouncing tracks on analogue all to one track so you can record more tracks. now we have unlimited tracks theoretically... obviously computers can only do so much now, but still... no need for generation loss to occur. also no need for bleeding or a wall of sound.

walters... that last post you made, made absolutely no sense to me. I have no idea what you're talking about anymore. just try to speak like an average person without getting into the technical jargon of recording and tell us what you're trying to do. do not use the term bleeding.