Soloing: when to use major or minor pentatonic

[cordura21]

If you have some major chords sequence, how do you know when to use minor pentatonics (like Angus Young) or major (I don't know, but I think of David Gilmour or some countri-ish Keith Richards)?

I know some will answer "whatever sounds good", but is there a way to know in advance or at least take a guess, based on the chord sequence, style, etc?
Cheers, Andrés

[Mark7]

Am I the only person in the world who solos using Modes?

[AlChuck]

If the progression is bluesy, minor pentatonics give you that tension between the major and minor third that's at the heart of the way the blues sound.

If the chords are not bluesy, try the major pentatonic.

[RezN8]

"whatever sounds good" ...

IMHO, it really depends on what mood you're trying to create. Angus and Gilmour are both incredible players, not because of the notes they are playing, but because of the feeling and emotion they put into playing.

Some tones generate feelings of tension or dissonance, while others seem to blend harmoniously. I try not to limit myself to the "rules" - to me they are they only guidelines.

Ever wonder why they call it music "theory"?

[apl]

My teacher said play majors over major chord progressions, and minors over progressions that have a minor chord. Blues has a minor chord.

[jojomellon]

Some blues have a minor chord but most are based on dominant 7 chords where a minor pentatonic still sounds good.

[famous beagle]

You'll need to be a little more specific with your question. "Some major chords sequence" doesn't tell too much. Are you talking about I, IV, V chords (as in a blues) or what?

If you're talking about a blues progression (which will usually just have I, IV, and V chords, unless it is a more sophisticated jazzy blues) then there are several options. There are more possibilities than this, but I think this is kind of what you're asking about:

Let's say we're in the key of A major:

Over A (I chord), you can use either A major pentatonic (more country sounding) or A minor pent. (more bluesy)

Over D (IV chord), you can use either D major pentatonic (again, more of a country flavor) or A minor pent. (bluesy sound). Generally speaking you would NOT want to use D minor pent. because it contains an F natural, which will sound sour in the key of A. This is especially true in a 12-bar situation. Sometimes it's done when you're transposing the same minor pent. riff from the I chord to the IV chord (i.e. an Am pent. riff moved up to Dm pent.), but even this is very rare by comparison.

Over E (V chord), you have several options: A major pent., A minor pent., E major pent., or E minor pent. Again, the majors will generally sound more country, while the minors will sound bluesier.


An earlier post said "major pentatonics over major chords and minor pentatonics over minor chords." You can never go wrong with this logic, but it's not at all the only option you have.


One thing you should remember when playing A minor pent. over an A major chord is that you will have a clash between the minor 3rd (C) in the scale and the major 3rd (C#) in the chord. Because of this, it's usually best to not resolve to the b3rd note (C). Most people either resolve their lines on the root (A), 5th (E), or b7th (G), using the b3rd along the way in transit.

Of course, there are no hard and fast rules in music, so "whatever sounds good" is actually the final word. However, there's plenty of things that 99% of the population will agree sound bad (like sitting on a Bb note over an A major chord in the key of A, for instance.)

[cordura21]

Cool. And could I use A major pentatonic over the D chord?

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by cordura21

Cool. And could I use A major pentatonic over the D chord?

Well, that depends on context. If you're playing a blues in A, then you probably would not want to use that. Here's why: Blues progression are usually made up of all dominant chords (or 7th chords), so in an A blues progression, you would have A7, D7, and E7. Even if someone isn't playing a 7th chord (like maybe they're playing that boogie-woogie pattern that alternates 5ths and 6ths), the dominant sound is still implied. So, a D7 is spelled D-F#-A-C. Since it has the C note in it, the A major pent. (with a C#)wouldn't sound right.

It's a more country (or sometwhat jazzier) sound to play the A major pent. over the A7 and then play the A minor pent. over the D7. It really highlights that C#-C move that's present in the chords.

Now, if you're just playing some kind of I, IV, V progression that's not a blues (like maybe a vamp between A and D, or I and IV), and the chords are not dominant chords (they're just regular triads), then A major pent. over D would be an option. It will sound very bright and "pretty." It's just a matter of taste as to whether you decide to use it.

[Codmate]

Use either.

I sometimes use both.

If you want you can think of F#minor pent as Amajor pent. Try swapping bewteen F#minor pent and Aminor pent over an A-D-A-E-D-A type progression to get a feel for the different sounds.

In reality you can use any note on the guitar as long as the notes either side are the right ones

[mshilarious]

I just stick to whole tone scales, makes life much easier since there are only two of them.

Seriously, try completely forgetting what notes you are playing, and just reach for the next string/fret that you think might be good. If that note sucks, don't worry, just pick a different one next

[shiatzu]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

I just stick to whole tone scales, makes life much easier since there are only two of them.

Seriously, try completely forgetting what notes you are playing, and just reach for the next string/fret that you think might be good. If that note sucks, don't worry, just pick a different one next

ah, how much easier life is when you have perfect (or near-perfect) pitch and you can just feel it out... hahaha... i agree, try to memorize tones and "play" the solo in your head and feel it out on the fretboard, rarely will you come up with something in your head that sounds wrong (assuming you play it out correctly).

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by shiatzu

ah, how much easier life is when you have perfect (or near-perfect) pitch and you can just feel it out... hahaha... i agree, try to memorize tones and "play" the solo in your head and feel it out on the fretboard, rarely will you come up with something in your head that sounds wrong (assuming you play it out correctly).

I have decent relative pitch, but even without that, just go for it. It's lot fresher than any of the ol' pentatonic blues boxes, that's for sure.

Besides, maybe what's in my head is boring, so if I screw it up, it can only get more interesting.

[cordura21]

I think you guys are right. However, the problem is how to translate from "mind" to "fingers".

[dirtythermos]

Originally Posted by cordura21

However, the problem is how to translate from "mind" to "fingers".

That's what playing the guitar is all about. Music is a language, and it takes time to learn how to say what you are feeling. Children can't write very good poetry, because they just don't have that much experience with English (or whatever language they are learning). Likewise, just because someone has a huge vocabulary doesn't necessarily mean they are good at extemporaneous speaking.

We have all heard guitar players who had amazing speed and technique, but their music was still utterly boring. If the guitar player in a band isn't saying anything, why is he soloing?

Learn the theory and technique that will allow you to express yourself. When you have a good grasp of the language, then you have to think of something worth saying with it.

[Armistice]

Mark 7 - you're possibly the only person in the world who understands them!

Find myself Phrygianing a lot, so that's really the only one I'm particularly comfortable in...

[Mark7]

Nah, modes are easy

Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Æolian
Locrian

Each one is built on a particular degree of the Major scale. So, basically it's just 7 variations on the same seven notes

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by Mark7

Nah, modes are easy

Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Æolian
Locrian

Each one is built on a particular degree of the Major scale. So, basically it's just 7 variations on the same seven notes

Yep. Modes are the most misunderstood things in the guitar world. People make such a huge deal out of them when ... like you said ... IT'S JUST A MAJOR SCALE. The only time they come in useful is when you superimpose them on different chords. For instance, if you have a one-chord Dm7 vamp, you could use several different "minor" modes (Dorian, Phrygian, or Aeolian) to get different results. You need to know them, so you don't have to keep referencing back to major scales in different keys for things like that.

But when people say to approach a ii V I progression with "Dorian, Mixolydian, Ionian," that's just a waste of time. If you're in the same key the whole time, you don't need to worry about modes.

[foo]

Originally Posted by Mark7

Am I the only person in the world who solos using Modes?

No - it's the only way to go!

[Easto]

What's Pentatonic?




































D'oh! :-)

[Armistice]

If I have to make up a solo to something, then I make up something that fits in with the song, I don't often think about what mode(s) it's in. I construct it note for note and it takes quite some time. But then, I'm not an improviser and play only my own music, so I'm rarely in the situation of having to noodle away to a particular chord structure

[cordura21]

I think we all now about modes, but the subject is pentatonic scales. I mentioned guys like Angus Young who used them a lot, and that's what I am after. I guess nobody yelled "come on Angus, rock on a dorian for the boys!!!" on an ACDC concert. Please, stay on topic? Pretty please ?

[foo]

Sure we can stay on topic - but you have so many more choices with a modal approach than with pentatonics, and they're just as easy to learn and use.

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by foo

Sure we can stay on topic - but you have so many more choices with a modal approach than with pentatonics, and they're just as easy to learn and use.

This isn't necessarily true. Pentatonics are great for superimposing over different chords and highlighting the extensions that you want to highlight. For example, if you play Em pentatonic (E-G-A-B-D) over C, you end up coloring the C chord as a Cmaj9 (or actually Cmaj13 if you include the A note). Sure it's possible to do that with the C Ionian mode as well, but the point is that by superimposing different pent. scales, you can automatically play the extensions you want to, without having to sort through the other 2 "questionable" notes of the scale.

Pentatonics are extremely useful. Modes are extremely overhyped and misunderstood.

[junplugged]

I got stuck w/ pentatonics and when I learned major scales, it all opened up for me.

It also depends a lot on what the melody is and what the bass player is playing.

Listen to Chuck Berry, he's the guy who combined country (major) and blues (minor pentatonic) and well, you know the rest of the story. Analize his licks and you'll see he's switching between major scale and minor pent in the same solo.

then you can also lead the next chord change and play the scale that matches the next chord but not the present chord and when it comes around, it flows right in.

you've only got 12 tones, 8 for a maj/min scale, take 2 out, you got maj/min pent. there's only 4 other notes that could also work, but shouldn't, unless you make em fit. It's all fun.