Acoustic pickup installation - potential problem?

[stanjanssen]

Hi everyone!

I'm thinking of installing a pickup into my Yamaha FG312 Type II, 12 String acoustic guitar. The Fishman Acoustic Matrix NT2 is probably going to be my choice, because I will play at high stage volumes with this guitar.

Now I read through the on-line manual for the installation of this pickup, and noticed a potential problem concerning my bridge.

The manual says the string break angle should be 20 degrees or more, which is not the case (see the photographs I made here).

Now I had the guitar set-up when I got it, because there was a huge space between the strings and the neck, making it virtually impossible to play it...

I hope you know what I can do best, there is a guitar shop close to me yes, but I'd like to do it myself

Regards,
Stan.

[apl]

I'm using a Fishman Rare Earth humbucker soundhole pickup. I have heard good things about the I-Beam.

[onlyfingers]

Hey, stan.

Looks like a show-stopper to me. But then, I know next to nothing about this, From their diagman, it looks like it won't be "optimum." With a 12-string, especially, since six of the strings attach farther away, making an angle that is still worse, as your photo shows.

Send the photos to the manufacturer--see what they say. (Their manual says a neck reset will set you up. They gotta be kidding...)

When I looked into getting a pickup on my 12, I went almost right away to the active matrix iBeam from LR Baggs. It attaches inside the guitar, on the top wood, under where the saddle is attached. I never went through with it, and am still micing the 12 when I need to mix it into a sound system.

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products...ms_ibeam.shtml

Good luck.

[gordone]

1)The "huge space between the strings and the neck" is known as the action
2)They probably lowered the action by shaving down the saddle, hence the low saddle/low break angle
3)Sounds like the neck angle is off, especially if the action gets higher. Read about neck angle at http://www.frets.com
A neck reset will solve this problem.
4)PLEASE put some new strings on that guitar

[stanjanssen]

Gordone, thanks for correcting me

I was going to put new strings on it anyway, but I thought I'd wait with that untill the pickup is in, so I don't have to take the strings off twice...

Sort of mixed opinions here, onlyfingers says the neck setup won't help me out, Gordone says it will, I think I'll be taking the guitar to the guitar shop, just see what they'll tell me. It looks like it's not an optimum situation like you said.

Though the 20 degrees break angle is required for sufficient pressure to the bridge / pickup, but maybe, because there are 12 strings, the pressure would be enough when the pickup is under it? Or does it not work that way?

As for the Ibeam, unforunatly I can't get it anywhere here, as I'm in the Netherlands, so I'm kinda stuck with anything Fishman... Looks and sounds very good though...

Thanks,
Stan.

[onlyfingers]

Hi, Stan.

My "they've got to be kidding..." comment has to do with the assumption that a given instrument needs a neck reset if the saddle is low. Their advice, sight-unseen, to take a wrench to your guitar seems to me a broad leap. And a neck reset can be a pretty expensive proposition. Who am I to say a neck reset won't help your guitar or allow proper installation of the pickup? (I know 12-strings are more prone to having action problems, and are probably more likely to need a neck reset, too. I had intonation problems on mine, and the tech who looked at it diagnosed a neck reset. He was nice enough to decline the job because he didn't have the finishing skills. On my 12, the finish was applied after the guitar was assembled, so removing the neck would mean breaking the seal on the finish and some degree of re-finishing. When I took it to a different tech, there was a different diagnosis, and the guitar was fixed withoug the reset.)

It would be nice if you could find a twelve like yours that has an aftermarket pickup installed. That's one reason I never went forward with adding a pickup to mine. I had no idea how the instrument would sound, so the whole enterprise was too much of a leap of faith for me. If you haven't already, take a trip to a music store and check the angle on brand-new 12-strings. (I'm a cynical guy. I wonder how many brand new instruments need a neck reset to fix the problem Fishman has identified.)

[stanjanssen]

Hi,

thanks for all your replies..
The way I see it now is that installing a pickup in my current 12 string will be expensive and painfull, and no succes garantueed, so perhaps a new one would be a better choice, I'll be shopping some time these weeks

Oh and one little off topic question:
(How) can I change the pickguard on my guitar? It looks like it's glued to the body, but can I change it to a different model?

Thanks,
Stan.

[zimmo]

I'm sure the break angle is all about the pressure applied to the under saddle pickup. You may have enough with the 12 strings. As to changing the pickguard, yes you can change it. Look at frets.com. I changed one on an AW200 Ibanez to a Martin teardrop style, with no hassles. You use a heatgun/hairdryer (CAREFULLY) to apply enough heat to release the glue on the old one. The big thing is...on an older guitar, the finish will be extemely suntanned, and what you'll find under your original pickguard, will undoubtably be much lighter in color now. So...anything you don't cover up with the new pg. will show.

[Jimmy D.]

Hi Stan,

You can also think of it this way - It may need a reset (at some point soon) whether you install the pickup or not. If it's a guitar you really dig and want to keep, I'd have it checked out. Something tells me that if your action is set up low, and you have little saddle visible/tiny break-angle, chances are the 'fate of all acoustics' is catching up with you.. And if you have to do it, with optimum break you'll notice an improvement in the sound of the guitar.

I'm not sure if those Yamahas are dovetail or bolt-on neck joints - but my understanding is that the bolt-on necks make things a little easier for the luthier and probably a little less expensive.

I guess I'm just saying that the 'bridge' may have to be crossed soon anyway (that's awful)..

Regards, and best of luck!
Jim