building my own snake -- what cable to use?

[buddyholly]

Hello,

I am going to make my own snake for the direct outs on each channel of my shiny new Spirit board. Each channel out is balanced and uses TRS connectors. My soundcard's breakout box also uses TRS connectors.

Though I am happy that I will finally be able to use nothing but balanced lines going in and out of my board, I am not willing to spend $300 to connect the board to the soundcard.

Here's where the friendly forum users come in. What SPECIFIC cable do you guys recommend? I have looked at catalogues for BELDEN, CANARE, DGS (Gotham), and some other names I cannot remember. What I can't figure our is which cable type is the most appropriate for the least money. I never knew they made many different kinds of cable!!!!

For example: do I need/want plenum? Is foil preferable to braid in a situation like mine where the cable will not be moved or trod upon? what gauge wire is ideal? what about this weird stranding number (3x26)?

Thanks in advance for your help folks. Any other tips on snake building will be much appreciated and will be rewarded with eternal salvation. Not really. But they would be if it were up to me.

Peace, love, understanding.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by buddyholly
Hello,

I am going to make my own snake for the direct outs on each channel of my shiny new Spirit board. Each channel out is balanced and uses TRS connectors. My soundcard's breakout box also uses TRS connectors.

Though I am happy that I will finally be able to use nothing but balanced lines going in and out of my board, I am not willing to spend $300 to connect the board to the soundcard.

How many Channels do you need?
How far do you have to Run the cable?

If you need more than 8 channels, and need to run more than 20' per channel-you're going to be looking at probaby at least $300!

I spent $600 on cables, running 16 channels (In and out, or 32 cables) 10 feet!
Connectors are going to run you about $2.50 to $3.00 PER connector for neutriks, and Canare connectrs will run you about $3.50; it depends on where you get them.

so think about it this way. if you need 16 channels, that's 32 connectors at $2.75 average; that's $88 bucks for ends.
You'll still need the Cabling, and don't forget your time involved!
How much is your time building it worth?
Is your "personal time worth more than your "work time" or , is it worth "less"?

If you don't have the extra money from your job-I say get either a Night Job or a Day job-and work 2 weeks! You'll make enough to buy a snake, or cables and maybe a Mic, or a patchbay, or whatever, depending on what you make at the second job!
(No-I'm not knocking you-I'm just telling you from experience-Snakes are essentially useless in a Studio)

No you don't need Plenum.
Plenum is for data transmitions via a network which is installed in the wall or ceiling; the deal with Plenum, is that when it burns-it doesn't put off a toxic gas/fumes.

I would vote AGAINST making a snake; once a channel goes out-it's no good forever. It is NOT cheaper to build your own snake; the reason you buld your own snake is for customization only!

I built a snake one time, and for the time and money involved it is not worth it. Some things are better left to the pro's. What are you going to use to rwrap each piece of the Fanout/squid end? When i built mine-we had to use rubber tubing-because there was no Shrinkwrap available at that time in lengths long enough to cover it.

Here's MY suggestion:

Either buy quality Microphone Cable, and use that, and I would use Neutrik ends myself.

OR
iif you feel you need "snakes" for a neatness factor, buy HOSA 1/4"-Balanced 8 channel Snakes; they'll run you about $65.00 per 8 Channel, 12' section.

So, think about it before you run out and buy some snake cable.

There's nothing like building a snake, only to find that 3 of the channels that you made died a month after you made it!

If you simply need to "hide" the cables-make a tunnel/ductwork out of PVC and strap that to the wall or ceiling with Plumber's strapping/tape (It's a bendable metal about 1/2" wide, with holes in it that you can Nail/screw through.)

Tim

[Edited by Tim Brown on 08-10-2000 at 12:05]

[buddyholly]

Thanks for the reply. I should have been clearer in my previous post. What I want is 8 TRS to TRS cables to go out of the board and into the soundcard. I also need 8 TRS ot XLR(M). I don't need snake cable. I just need two-conductor shielded cable. Microphone cable. However, in my research I came across so many two conductor shielded cables that I didn't have any idea which was appropriate. I noticed some Canare that had a really slim Ouside Diameter, which seemed like a good idea, seeing as I don't need a bunch of rubber on some cable that will just be gingerly laying behind my desk.

Also, the Belden products aren't well deacribed enough for me to understand which is most appropriate. Does anyone have model numbers on this stuff? I think I can really save some money because I have piles of Switchcraft connectors in boxes. I just need some decent cabling. Unfortunately, I have not found much helpful info on what is good.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by buddyholly
Thanks for the reply. I should have been clearer in my previous post. What I want is 8 TRS to TRS cables to go out of the board and into the soundcard. I also need 8 TRS ot XLR(M). I don't need snake cable. I just need two-conductor shielded cable. Microphone cable. However, in my research I came across so many two conductor shielded cables that I didn't have any idea which was appropriate. I noticed some Canare that had a really slim Ouside Diameter, which seemed like a good idea, seeing as I don't need a bunch of rubber on some cable that will just be gingerly laying behind my desk.

Also, the Belden products aren't well deacribed enough for me to understand which is most appropriate. Does anyone have model numbers on this stuff? I think I can really save some money because I have piles of Switchcraft connectors in boxes. I just need some decent cabling. Unfortunately, I have not found much helpful info on what is good.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Okay,
That clears things up ALOT! hahaha
Any of the "name" cables are good (Mogami, Belden, Canare)
What you are seeing with that cable number (as you said 3x26) is there there are "X" amount of Strands of say 26 gauge wire, which could be considered a 22 or 20 gauge wire.
I say go for 22 or 20 gauge wire; the lower the number, the thicker the wire, which means more data/signal, less heat, and less distortion.

I would use NEW connectors, since this is for Digital recordings; but that's up to you.

You can get wire cable ties (the plastic ties) and bundle your cables together every 6 inches or so, effeectively creating "a snake".

I did this with my 12" Speaker cables for the PA, so now I only have "ONE" cable to run across the stage and conect-It saves a ton of time for hookup! Hahaha

Tim

[buddyholly]

Tim,

Thanks for taking the time to reply quickly. So, I see many reasonable Belden products in my Mouser catalogue. The AWG 22(7x30) stuff is only $22.38 for a 100' spool. Seems too good to be true I guess. The shield is aluminum-polyester. Sound okay to you? The AWG 24 is $11.52!

I will have to research Canare and Mogami prices. Any tips on where to find prices on line?

Many thanks!

[monty]

I tried to make a snake out of a lizard, but the duct tape didn't keep his blood inside his body, so I had to sew some rat legs onto his body. He couldn't walk with 4 rat legs so I sewed a couple of cat legs onto his body. Still didn't work. Guess I'll never be any good at making snakes.

[monty]

Oh, BTW, I'm bored again in case you haven't guessed. I made a frog once though. Stuck a tadpole in a bottle and fed it some special magic voodoo stuff, and I'll be damned if it didn't turn into a frog.

[monty]

And I made a butterfly out of a caterpillar. Fed it some special magic leaves. Would you believe I'm an adult? I don't.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by sonusman


Anyway, I don't think that you will have much problems with channels on a snake going bad. The cable is seldomly going to move, which lessens the strain at the connections, which happens to be where over 90% of audio problems exist. So, you snake should last you for years and years, with little to no maintnance at all....

Don't get solder in your eye....: )

Ed

Ed, the only reason I said Hosa, is because he was wanting to spend less than $300.00

You are not going to get a QUALITY snake for that much-plus, he's looking for a "fan to fan" 1/4" stereo-whcih is considered a "Custom" item-means even more bucks.
When he originally posted-he didn't say how many channels, either, and I thought he was looking for at least 16 Balanced Channels in and out-that means a 32 channel snake balanced on 1/4" TRS connectors.

What did your snake cost by the way? Hehehe
I'm guessing at least a Grand, and probably a bit more than that! Did you build it, or buy it?

I have a couple, and one that we had built(Rackmounted splitter box for 3 way Live/Audio/Monitor feeds).
man, that was a Bitch to build! Hahaha
I didn't solder for almost 6 months after that; in between that and completely re-building an NEI 12x4 mixer-i didn't EVER want to see another soldering Iron again! Hehehe

Tim

[Track Rat]

I use Beldon 8451 with Switchcraft ends. There was a thread in here about some space wire ( used on the shuttle or something) that was supposed to be very good but I've never heard anything else about it. Any body?

[buddyholly]

Thanks for the specific model # on the Belden. It is a great price! I could really use the several hundred I will save. Does anybody know how much comparable Canare costs for a 100' spool? The Belden is about $25. That is AWG 22 with a foil shield and two conductors.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by buddyholly
Thanks for the specific model # on the Belden. It is a great price! I could really use the several hundred I will save. Does anybody know how much comparable Canare costs for a 100' spool? The Belden is about $25. That is AWG 22 with a foil shield and two conductors.

How long do you need these cables to be?


Tim

[Track Rat]

That's two conductors and a drain making three. You can wire balanced.

[buddyholly]

In response to Tim's question. I only need these cables to be between 6-10'. I will buy two spools, I think.

[bball jones]

If I owned a music store, I could order a dozen or so snakes a weeek and never sell one -yet have none in stock if you came callin.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by sonusman
Man Tim, I spent about $900 just for the bridging transformers, and another $450 on 100' of 48 channel snake wire. I have at least $800 in connectors on that bad boy, and the case cost $200. Plus, there is the shrink wrap, AMP multi pin connectors, Steel for the face plate...etc....

I have at least $3500 into that snake, and at least 80 hours of labor into it. I got a bid to build the same thing, and it came in at just about $10,000, so I think I saved a few bucks doing it myself.... But man, it was hell putting it together. Something I would never do again!!!

Ed

Oh man, did you put Jensen's on every tap?!!!
Damn!!!!!!!!!!

I'm getting ready to build a box for my Mackie 1604vlz which will allow me to have Patching and a split for a monitor mixer as well as spots to tap into the inserts with my DA-38's.


Tim