Smallish Amp for recording metal and other

[cellardweller]

I've read so many threads in the past three days my eyes feel like sandpaper.

I'm thinking I need a small amp, that can be pushed hard without deafening, or summoning police officers.
I'm also under the impression that staying away from the POD/etc. may be a good idea, unless I want another hobby searching for presets/etc. Having spent a futile year+ wrestling my current crap, I'd just like to get something that's a bit more "simple", an amp I don't have to use a pedal with to get decent distortion. All of the above may prove impossible, but I'm optomistic

I'm hoping that this amp will become a staple for years to come, and I will not outgrow it short-term, or require upgrading it.

Specificity goes to metal, it's probably at least 70% of what ends up coming out of me, but I'd like something that cleans up well, and has some tonal versatility.

EDIT ~ sorry, price range is <$1000.
Gigging is not a consideration, as my I'm not with a band currently, and my ampeg serves this purpose good enough.

[nuemes]

The answer depends on what specific kind of tone you want to produce. Each amp manufacturer has thier own type of tone. I'd say you can't loose with a small tube amp for your situation; Fender would likely be too clean though.

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Fender would likely be too clean though.

That's kinda what I gathered from other threads...

JCM800/900 seems to be a popular choice for metal, but what about tonal diversity? Does it "clean up" well? Is there any smaller marshall that comes to mind?

[apl]

Hey, CD, I've been thinking about this stuff alot. I think there are two approaches.

1. Get your own perfect tone. That would mean perfecting your guitar/fx/amp until you think it's the bomb. But then your kinda limited to that sound.

2. Get a versatile setup that will do alot of tones well. None will be perfect but most will be excellent.

I'm going for the 2nd because I don't really have a certain genre I fit into.

That's why I like the Line 6 Spider II 15.

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by apl

I've been thinking about this stuff alot...

You and me both!
I think it was chessrock who called me out on it, but I do tend to obsess over these things, IMO rightly so, I can't afford trial and terror...

I managed to sign off for 1/2 hour a bit ago...

Here I am again.

[nuemes]

[QUOTE=apl]
2. Get a versatile setup that will do alot of tones well. None will be perfect but most will be excellent.
[QUOTE]

I think you're right about versatility. If you want a lot of different tones then the best option would be to look into a tube power amp and a tube preamp that includes a digital interface (only the interface should be digital; nothing else). Only problem with the setup is it goes completely against what you want: a small amp!

[nuemes]

Originally Posted by cellardweller

JCM800/900 seems to be a popular choice for metal, but what about tonal diversity? Does it "clean up" well? Is there any smaller marshall that comes to mind?

Marshalls aren't made to be clean; their tube stages don't really allow it. Can you specify the type of tone you're looking for and the stuff you have now?

[giraffe]

you could probably reduce that pole to this for what you want

marshal
mesa
washburn
(before reading the rest note that i have a "thing" about modeling amps, i think they suck)

if you have the option, buy used (esp a washburn) mid 90's or earlier, before all these companys started making amps to compete with the line 6.

in my opinion it's best to get one DANK sound, and stick with it
you can get pedals for variations in distortion sound.

ps. someone will probably have my head for this but i've heard some good metal sounds come out of a crate.

yea, i said it.

[giraffe]

oh, i have a friend with a pair of jcm 800s, the origionals not the new ones, they kick ass.

as it's told to me a big part of the sound comes from the cab he has though.

(which is a 70's 4X12 marshal cab)

[cellardweller]

I forgot Univalve... sorry. They have a 15watt head in MF for $845...

Well, currently i'm attempting to use an ampeg VT120. It doesn't get decent distortion, so I run a pedal into it (Boss MT2).

I don't really know what I'm looking for , I'm on a tone pilgrimage now . Anything is better that what I am dealing with now. I think I'm pretty flexible in my acceptance/appreciation... if that makes sense...

I guess I'd have to say more of an "old school" metal sound, as opposed to nu-metal. I'm a death metal convert, but still like the sounds on some of those old cookie monster CD's....BUT...I don't want to be stuck on 11 all the time


*EDIT* You snuck in there on me giraffe... I guess I'm probably going to be selling off some stuff in order to allow for a head and cab...
arghhhh

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by giraffe

i've heard some good metal sounds come out of a crate.

yea, i said it.

Crate huh? I have a GX212. Any suggestions? Use the internal distortion, or BOSS MT2? I tried recording it once only, but gave up quickly. Maybe I should try again...

[Wireneck]

Cellardweller- This is a tough call because your looking for metal tones but wanting to keep the volume down. Unfortunately alot of the amps that have smoking distortion channels need some volume before they really start sounding smooth.
I think with Mesa/Marshall (for the most part) you will not be disapointed. They each have their sound so its up to you which one will work best. If the option is available, I would get in a store and just spend the day playing around and seeing what you do and don't like. As i've stated before I own both a marshall and a Mesa. Both do certain things really well but they are not similar by any means.
Also don't be afraid to go for a lower wattage with the Mesas. I've got a 45 watt nomad head and it will take your face off before you ever get to half volume. Most of the guys I know who own dual/triple rectifiers hardly ever get the volume up to even warrant having all that power to begin with. Just something to think about.
I hate to make things even more complex but the amp isn't everything. Im almost certain that At the gates "slaughter of the soul" was done through a peavey amp with a boss metal zone. That album has some of the most in your face riffing to be caught on tape in a long time IMHO. Guitar/person playing is going to be a giant factor as well. Wish I could comment on those but I've only heard a 1 min clip from you that I can remember.
Good luck in your search man, try not to let it eat at you too much.

[wesley tanner]

that univalve would be a GREAT option.

or get a hotplate.

soldano makes some incredible tones, might be sliightly outta reach. I love orange, too. an orange ad15 makes such a fat tone. for some hardcore bands I record, they love orange, so it may be worth checking out.

[joemintz]

I have a Mesa Boogie Mark IV with a Rectifier 1x12 that I use for recording and I love it. Can't quite get that Fender Blackface clean, and it won't do that Marshall crunch, but it's wonderful for everything inbetween. Plus, you can switch out the standard 6L6s for EL34s, which I haven't done, and which might give a more Marshall-esque tone. But I figure if you're buying a Mesa you shouldn't really want it to sound like a Marshall.

A good place to start would be to name your favorite guitarists (tone-wise) and figure out what they used to record. Recording amps are often a lot different than live-use ones. Brian May, for instance, used something like nine Vox AC-30s live, but in the studio he used a teensy-weensy solid-state amp with a 6" speaker that the bassist built. If it's versatility and tubes you're looking for, though, I don't think you can go wrong with a Mark IV.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by wesley tanner

that univalve would be a GREAT option.

I hear that.

[volltreffer]

Is small just due to the neighbors and deafening or also because of the price? I assume that sompin like a marshall TSL (can already be switched to lower vol) and may an additional powerbrake could do the job. You might think of building a simple very small box for use with the powerbrake (maybe even with some dummy load to avoid the powerbrake). I love my TSL and it is rather versatile (you can even get the non-marshall tones)...

aXel

P.S.: a Mark IV is even in a higher price range, but a REALLY nice amp!

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by wesley tanner

that univalve would be a GREAT option.

What would be a good 1X12 cab to compliment the 15W Univalve? MF doesn't have much selection, and my wife is hassling me to get off the puter...
Anybody knows of....kewl!

I'm beginning to heavily lean the univalve direction. Are all of their amps "self biasing"? If so, this would be a HUGE advantage for me. Don't like the sound? Pop in some different tubes!

[Henri Devill]

UniValve is great IMO for a single 12...Peavey made a single 12 cab about the size of a Classic30 you can run it closed or open.Good lil cabinet and should be cheap!Good luck

[Track Rat]

I keep beating the Rivera dead horse. I've been experimenting this week using it to drive other cab/speaker combos. That and the 40 watt amp in my Leslie. So far they're both blowing me away.

[Wireneck]

Are all of their amps "self biasing"?

I don't have any idea about the univalve but the Nomad line of the Mesas are.

The majority of the amps you mentioned are all extremely nice amps. When you get that far up the chain its going to be really hard to find an amp that sucks in itself though It can be very easy to find one that sucks for the sound you want.

I love orange, too. an orange ad15 makes such a fat tone. for some hardcore bands I record, they love orange,

I know alot of Brit rock bands around here that use the Orange and Vox amps. I can't even begin to imagine them working in a "Metal" setting. Not that I would mind owning one but it certainly would not be my first choice for metal.

[cellardweller]

Wireneck ~ Where did you get your Mesa?

I see from the dealer locator on the Mesa site, that there are no guitar centers within 3 hours of where I am. There are a couple of ma & pa's within an hour.

There are many on ebay, but I can't imagine what shipping would cost, and in what shape it might arrive...

PS Peavey is winning the poll! Whodathunk?

[HangDawg]

Here it is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...311571190&rd=1

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by Henri Devill

UniValve is great IMO for a single 12...Peavey made a single 12 cab about the size of a Classic30 you can run it closed or open.Good lil cabinet and should be cheap!Good luck

Another good suggestion.

Oh yea ... the nice thing about the Univalve is that you don't need to worry about biasing. Tubes on that thing are hot-swappable from what I understand. I've only worked with one a few times, but from my limited experience, it's about the most versatile thing out there as far as real amps go at less than a thousand bucks.

Certainly nothing wrong with a Boogie, though, if you can swing it.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by cellardweller

PS Peavey is winning the poll! Whodathunk?

Someone is being a wise ass. Nobody uses Peavey for metal.

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by chessrock

it's (Univalve) about the most versatile thing out there as far as real amps go at less than a thousand bucks.

Certainly nothing wrong with a Boogie, though, if you can swing it.

Seems that about sums it up, though only MF has the 15W Univalve which runs under $1000...