Tascam 2488 vs. Roland vs2000 vs. Korg D16000mk2 vs. Yamaha d16g vs Akai DPS 16

[diogo]

i know this has been covered a thousand times on this board...but i would like to have some opinions on all these units, as i have a chance at either one of them for cheap (more or less), or can go the extra mile if one is absolutely better than the other. within these items, price is not an issue.

i would like to have input mainly on these categories:

- preamp quality

- effect quality (reverb only..i really dont care for guitar simulation, amp, distortion whatever, etc - all of that is outside the box and already existant)

- intuitive mixing

- ease of use (not so important)

- hability do add external pres and effects (that is if the first two categories totally lack quality on all units)

note: i just got a DMP3 im using with a fostex 8 track, but its totally out of the equation as i really want everything in a box for now, if possible.

tanx a lot, sorry if im posting this in the wrong place, but i couldnt post so many brands in one brand section alone :/

any help would be very much apreciated!

tanx a lot in advance.



ps.

direction..

k i forgot to mention this so im editin...

music i record: i only record my own project, and i probly never record anyone else, except some friend that might need a hand or something, so flexibility is really not essential.

music itself...my project, i guess it takes sounds from lots of places, but mainly from 4AD releases (think early Red House Painters, etheral distortion/sound, lots of hall reverb, etc..) but also nick drake (i also go for the proximity effect when something like that will suit a song bettter than the huge red house painters sound like), great lake swimmers (natural verbs would also be real nice if possible)...that kind of vibe.

usually there's like 1 vocal track, 2 or 3 second vocals, normally 3 electric guitar layers, 2 or 3 acoustic guitar layers, bass and ocasionally some synth.

synth and drums are done outside in a studio, so no real need here.

mics:

AT 4040
SM57
SP C1
Oktava 012

i guess thats it. accordin to these needs, and the fact that i rely lots on reverbs (but can also add later on the puter - cool edit pro 2.1, although i would prefer something decent in the portable studio unit), whats your views?


tanx a lot in advance...

[Craigory]

I have used the Roland VS stuff and can attest they have decent setups. I found the contols very easy to use and the sound quality very good. The pre's are ok, nothing spectacular. The newer ones know all have the option for using a monitor which is sweet. The editing and backgound are pretty terrible though. They can know handle third party plugin's, but they seem a little pricey for me, (UA LA2A is somewhere around 220)
A friend of mine had an AKAI a few years back, didn't really like it.

If I were going to buy another Hard disk recorder instead of my Mac and DP, I think I would go with the new Korg D16MX, DX32MX or whatever it is called. They have a 32 Track verision with an analog preamps and analog compressor option which is what many find wrong with these all in one boxes.... Hope this helps.

[diogo]

helps a lot! tanx a lot!!

analog pres...i gotta look into that...

i also forgot to mention some obvious stuff that will somehow help direction the much apreciated help (mics i use, music i record)..but ill just edit the first post...

tanx!

[diogo]

Originally Posted by Craigory

new Korg D16MX, DX32MX or whatever it is called. They have a 32 Track verision with an analog preamps and analog compressor option which is what many find wrong with these all in one boxes.... Hope this helps.

i was looking into korg website and their highest quality unit seems to be the D1600...u sure this is the one with analog pres and compressor?

http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=D1600

tanx!

[Craigory]

http://www.korg.com/gear/product_inf...&category_id=3

[diogo]

damn..

this thing looks like the Thing...
damn u Craig

i was really trying not to go over 1400 bucks...this is almost 2000...but seems well worth it in terms of not needing any outboard equipment..

damn.......
damn.



any other thoughts?

[diogo]

humm..ive been reading a lot..

the D16XD seems a bit overkill for my needs, and with the money left i can get some decent cabling, probly a smaler fender hotrod cause im havin trouble recordin the 60wt one, whatever..

according to the things ive been reading...korg D1600 MK2 is by far the best bang for the buck...the guys of Sound on Sound gave it a brutally positive review (u can actually feel the smiling face the guy had while typing) so...none of the other units im going for really had that positive of a review...i expected that, at least the VS would be raved, but it is actually the more beat up...

i think ive narrowed my choice to the tascam 2488 (24 tracks is nice but seems like they really did cut through lots of corners, especially on effects), the Yamaha AW-16G (i know this gets rave reviews everywhere but..im worried bout the 16 bit only capability) and of course, the Korg D1600 MK2...

im leaning towards the Korg, at that price, it cant be beat so they say...omt he other hand, the Yamaha is a lot less money and i do have a DMP3....but im really looking forward to something that can give me the best possible sound within these units obvious limitaions of course...


anyone?


the questions still stand...whats your stance on preamp quality and effects (especially reverb!)...

tanx!

[deepwater]

The Yamaha AW16G is a great machine and has as good of sound quality as any work station and better then most. You'll have a hard time finding anything bas said about it othere then it take a few days to learn.

[philboyd studge]

Apples and oranges, even though I own a 2488.

Demo them all and go with your instincts.

[diogo]

hey deepwater...(tanx!)

but even at 16 bit?
wont it be a noticable difference between the D1600 24 bit capability?

i think ive narrowed down the search to these two...i wish i could find a store in europe that distributed the AW2816...cause i would consider it...

i really didnt want to use lots of outboard, i dont have time for that and its been a while into looking up things, then itll be a while settin up stuff, especially if ill be usin lots of outboard...im startin to focus a lot more on what to get than actual music, wich is bad.

i really dont need versatility as im only recording my project...

with all im readin, the pres on these things are really starting to worry me :/

thin and metalic sound is not what im after......

----------------


Phill...i cant demo anything :/ i live in portugal, any store here will say: "if u order u have to buy it"...

i only buy stuff from Germany (Thomann)...and i really cant try, otherwise i would :/

some audio clips would be nice though...

[Janesaid2me]

Go for the D1600....why...first and foremost their own website...www.korgstudios.com ...those guys will help you with anything and everything and get your working your machine up to 100%...as for what you asked...the preamps are good...effects are good, nice selection of reverbs with good control over each part....this is probably by far the easist of all the machines to use...especially due to its touch screen! I use no outboard effects although im sure others due....plus the D1600 has a great price...you can get it for under 1000 at guitar center just haggle them down.

[diogo]

hey Gerry..

u sure about the pres? everyone seems to thinkt hey're weak :/
how would u rate it against a DMP3 for instance?

outboard effects..
what units are u handy with? i would be interested to know how the outboard effects would compare to a TC M300...or a lexicon MPX 550 (thatsd probly going too far for this unit, but i can always hope...)?


tanx a lot in advance!

[diogo]

i was just listening to the songs on the Korg website..

i wont comment the songs but the sound in them, some are really thin, the vocals seem detached from the rest of the stuff and almsot like there's no real pre being used, on the level of the vocals u can get from a Fostex MR8 without any external pre...altough, some others actually sound in the mix, totally fluid...i really want to believe that the problem is the mixing and the guy behind the desk, not the machine itself...

:/

[Craigory]

I wouldn't stress about it.
I put out two records recording witha VS-1880, 3 sm57's, and a pair of AGK C1000S's and it sounded fine. Does it sound like pro studio? No? Did it win any awards? No. Could it have sounded better? Yes.
But the main thing was I enjoyed recording it. I took my time. I wasn't on anyone else's schedule but mine. I didn't have to pay by the hour.
I made misktakes and learned from them.

Now that I have more experience and have spent many long hours reading and experimenting, I have upgraded a lot of my setup. Luckly I can still use my VS-1880 as a controll surface for DP.

These all in one machines are great tools, but for a complete package at around 1000$, something has to be sacrificed. Pre's can always be added later, and if you buy right, you can always use them.

The Korg is a great unit. I helped a student of mine get started on it any it was pretty easy and sounded good. I wasn't crazy about how you had to bounce tracks, you only had two options I believe, but it could have been the mki.

Good luck.

[arcaxis]

As Janesaid2me suggested, head over to the Korgstudios.com site. There is a forum there for users songs links which might give you a bit more of an idea what the D1600 can do.

So far as the pres in the D1600, they're OK and usable. The only complaint I have is that they are kind of touchy to adjust when you have them near full cranked out for gain. I use an external pre as it just gives me a better control than the internal pres. Maybe an external pre improves the sound, but to my ears I don't notice a whole lot of difference.

The Korg has a good assortment of internal effects. I have a fair collection of hardware effects boxes that I haven't felt the need to use with the Korg as the Korg's effects seem to work for me OK.

Love the Korg's touch screen !!!

One of the main factors that steered me toward the D1600 was the hard drive and CD writer being user replaceable and of a standard physical size that should be obtainable at a reasonable cost. Some of the other machines use what appear to be HD's and/or CD writers that may be of the laptop type and may not be so easy to replace if neccessary. At least when I got the Korg several years ago this was the case.

[Treeline]

I have the AKAI DPS16, 20 Gig drive, last software build. If you get one, check out the Yahoo DPS12 users site (DPS16 users there as well) and do the research to avoid (or prepare to replace) the 10 gig drive. It's noisy.

- preamp quality: Pristine, fantastic, gorgeous, make you drool... not what you expect in a 16 track of this vintage. Substantially the same preamps as in the DPS24.

- effect quality (reverb only..i really dont care for guitar simulation, amp, distortion whatever, etc - all of that is outside the box and already existant) Not fantastic but useable.

- intuitive mixing: It's pretty good; you need to find your way around a bit and it is menu based (which I do not like) but is effective. I use it with great joy as a tracker, mix down to four aux signals and transfer to the computer where most of the tweaking occurs.

- ease of use (not so important) Plug it in, turn it on, open a project, arm the tracks (big red blinking lights) hit record (big red solid lights) and you're off to the races. Easy.

- hability do add external pres and effects (that is if the first two categories totally lack quality on all units) Easy - a graphic internal buss allows you to do this with ease.

note: i just got a DMP3 im using with a fostex 8 track, but its totally out of the equation as i really want everything in a box for now, if possible.

I expect these preamps are the equal of the DMP3, if not better. You have only two XLRs, so you may want to hang onto the DPM3 (which I use and love) if you use a lot of mics simultaneously, or use a mixer. I've had a great time being able to capture eight tracks at once. It sounds that for your use the DPS16 would be a great value.

One word of warning: You need to get an external CD/R and you are limited to SCSI. Akai uses its own format. You can pick them up on ebay for a reasonable price. But hold off the CD/R if you go for the DPS16; I've found it easier to dump files digitally or using the 4 Aux sends to my computer than to mess with the CD/R.

The other irritant is that the fan tends to get noisy. That has its own set of common sense remedies, as it is a small, 40 mm 12 volt fan. Replacements could involve quiet fans, 80 mm (computer size - it does fit) - but running at half speed.

Finally, you can record at 24 bit / 44.1 or 48 kHz without using up resources - just a little more disk space. If you move to 24/96, like all the others, you will have only half a unit available. That's unpredictable.

All in all, it's paid for itself a number of times, so to speak. One tough, reliable sucker; never crashed once.

[deepwater]

You can pop over and talk to these guy about the AW16G

http://forum.dijonstock.com/viewtopic.php?p=14105#14105

[diogo]

Craig-

tanx...i actually took another trip to the korg forums and listened to some other tunes...im really starting to conclude that its really the ppl mixing that are makin it sound bad, detached, etc....some others get excelent results with just Korg's pres and mics, nothing in between.

--------------------

arcaxis-

tanx a lot, the effects bit is reassuring...i was thinking of gettin either a Lex 550, yamaha rev 500 or tc m300...
but im hoping the difference is not that substancial.

---------------------------------------

treeline-

inute immensely apreciated..akai really impresses me...i must admit..but they're virtually impossible to get here in portugal :/ besides something weird is happening, none of the german online stores i use actually carries anything besides those weird rhytm boxes of them....

if i could get a second hand unit (DPS 24)...i dont really know how much they're going for new...probly 2000 no?


------------------------------------------------------

deepwater-

tanx! im off the 16G by now though....


the decision has been made very simple after reading, listening to sound bits, etc...

- Korg D1600 mkII - very serious contender
(its actually the only unit im considering buying new)

- yamaha AW2816 (if i can get my hands on a used unit i might give it a go)

- yamaha AW4416 (the only way ill get this is second hand or on some store totally gettin rid of stock at crazy prices)


yamaha note...yamaha is launching some new products in the music convention takin place in germany in april....namely some new stand alone units. thats why the 16G is the only one still selling and being stocked, the other ones stopped being produced alltogether. this is kind of why im afraid to shop around for an AW, im afraid the new ones are soooooo much better, but this is also highly unlikely....let's wait and see....
if anyone has an idea of whats comin out there please drop a word...it would be of great help!


on another side not...damn, the Tascam SX1 sure looks good..at 2500 its tempting....i wonder if theses things will ever drop to 1500 or even 1000 (i know im day dreaming here but...)...


tanx for all the input...please keep it coming...

tanx!

[Janesaid2me]

I think the pres are ok on the d1600....they are alittle touchy but if i remember correctly its the way they are set up or something, some kind of exponential scale almost...especially when ya get near the high end. But they work fine....go check out the songs on my website, they were all done with my d1600 and I think (as well as many other professional people) that they sound great. I mean for important things u should use a good tube preamp anyways so I wouldnt rely soley on any of those units pres alone.

[diogo]

i will, tanx!

[Treeline]

I have no idea about availability in Portugal, but all the units are used; it is no longer in production. So they are pretty cheap - around here, about $800 US more or less. I paid a thousand for mine a couple of years ago and it came with a double armful of cables and a couple of snakes.