New rehearsal PA - Avoiding Feedback?

[thispleasesme]

Hey everyone.

I just got a new PA for my band's rehearsal space. The room is small, and we're loud, roughly 14x18 feet.

So we bought a pair of Mackie SRM-450 active speakers. VERY nice, very clear, but I can't even crank them without that disgusting, frightening, horrible feedback that we all hate.

I even bought one of those Behringer Feedback Destroyers. I still have yet to figure that out. None the less, my question is this... What are common-place practices for avoiding feedback? Any suggestions?

Does anyone own/know how to work this feedback thing? I should probably just re-read the manual. Can you tell I've been awake for 26 hours?

Thanks in advance everyone!

[apl]

The easiest thing to do is turn it down. Or turn down the feedback frequency on the feedback mic using eq.

[SonicAlbert]

You want to avoid ahving the speakers blowing directly at the mics. So the easiest way to do that is to keep behind the monitors. So if the monitors are aimed at the audience, you stay behind them. Otherwise, you should just play around with placement until you find something that works better. And f course also play with levels, as has been suggested.

[thispleasesme]

Well, yeah, when we turn down it does fix the issue. But we play tube guitar amps, and they are REALLY loud. Needless to say, the point of buying this thing was so we could hear our vocals. If we have to turn them down to avoid feedback, that sort of defeats the purpose.

I'll try working with EQ.

Thanks a lot guys.

[SonicAlbert]

Where are you placing the monitors, and what direction are they facing?

[apl]

Take it easy on your ears, man. You only get one pair.

[JazzMang]

Answer: In-ear monitors.

[GABritton]

Get hot plates for your tube amps if they're too loud.

The problem is you want to play loud, but you can't have it too loud. There's compromise on both ends. Turn the mics down, position them so they're not pointed directly at the speakers, work with the EQ. Feedback destroyers in that situation will be okay, but you'll be best fit to just adjust the EQ once on the board for each channell manually for each person and leave it.

Everyone has run into this problem, you know the answer to your question, you just don't want to turn down....think of this too....you said turning down defeats the puropse, but playing the guitar amps too loud also defeats the purpose of hearing the vocals.

[mrface2112]

playing through tube amps isn't an excuse.....just turn it down!

then mic all the amps, run it through a mixing board, get a headphone amp and give everyone headphones. you'll be quieter AND you'll be able to hear each other better. and it's amazing how much better you play when you can actually hear something other than RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR




plus, the people going to your shows will thank you for not making their ears bleed.


cheers,
wade

[thispleasesme]

We actually switched from the headphone amp scheme. We know how to play our songs spot on. That's what a month in a studio paying daily will do to you. The reason we switched to PA is that we needed to work on our performance, etc. You can't do that with a cable running to your head. It just didn't work.

In ear is too expensive.

We'll try the hotplates I think.

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys.

[travelin travis]

It's tough avoiding feedback in a small room. I've been there. Basically, anywhere you put your mics, they will still pickup alot of the sound bouncing off the walls. Although I never gave it a shot, the folks at the local music stores told me to get an analyzer to find out which frequencies were the main culprits and then to use an equalizer to cut those frequencies. Something I tried on my own was deading the walls a bit with heavy plankets and it did help to an extent, although I only had enough blankets to do one wall, the wall that the mics were facing. I would say that playing with the mic placement within the room and using the blankets on the wall cut my feedback problems in half or maybe a little more.

[snipeguy]

Originally Posted by thispleasesme

We actually switched from the headphone amp scheme. We know how to play our songs spot on. That's what a month in a studio paying daily will do to you. The reason we switched to PA is that we needed to work on our performance, etc. You can't do that with a cable running to your head. It just didn't work.

In ear is too expensive.

We'll try the hotplates I think.

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys.

Boy, does this sound familiar! I've been been in the music game for about thirty some odd years and reading this thread is a painful reminder of mistakes I have made. I too played in numerous so called "loud" bands and now I'm paying the price with PERMANENT hearing damage. I suffer from tinitus which is a constant ringing in the ears. I mean CONSTANT! My high end is questionable but I get by. I can remember saying "but I have to play loud or it doesn't sound right". Well that's BULLSHIT. This is the most adament I have ever been about a thread here so pardon my fervor. Get smaller amps! You can get any sound you want at just about any volume if you work at it. I can get the meanest, nastiest tube sound at any volume I want with my '67 Fender Princeton Blackface or my Fender Blues Deluxe. Plenty of juice. I use a few pedals when needed, namely a Tube Screamer, an ancient MXR Distortion +, and an MXR Compressor. The biggest factor in the volume of the band in a small space is how loud the drummer plays. The rest of the band can only play as quiet as the drums so your drummer really controls the volume. I urge you to learn how to play quieter. You will play better, sound better, sound men and audiences will thank, your load-ins will be easier but most of all you will be saving your most important tool of the trade, your ears. If you need the big rigs to look cool then get some empty cabinets for showtime but mike your small rig. Don't laugh, it's done all the time.

[goldtopchas]

I agree with Snipe....I have been around the block( more times than I care to mention)!! You and your band mates have to realize that practice is just that...You're not there to crank your amps and get "the sound", you're there to practice the music and get the changes and harmonies and so on.
I showed up for an audition once and the band actually had 2 "folded w cabs" along with the mids and horns in the practice room!!! They had everything miked and were trying to get a PA mix in this small practice room! Needless to say you couldn't hear ANYTHING! I left skid marks from that audition.
The best set-up I've found is to put all the amps and your drummer(if he doesn't sing), on one side of the room, along with your PA cabs. They work best if there hung from the ceiling.This also saves on floor space.
Stand on the other side, facing the amps and get a reasonable volume between the players. It definitly helps to hang some old sleeping bags or something on the walls to cut down on reflective surfaces.
Set your PA's EQ relatively flat not too much bass or highs(it'll sound like ass by itself but when your playing it'll cut through the mix. It also helps to cut it at about 2 1/2k TO 3k this is where most monitors and PA cabs start to feed back first. Obviously, this takes cooperation from all the players...The quieter you can play, the better!!! Save your volume for the show!!!