Mic-ing drums (with minimal recources)

[phillybean]

My digital 8-track is coming next week and I was wondering what would be the best way to utilize 2 mics for recording a drum kit.
They aren't drum mics, they're Shure SM58's. Can anybody tell me the best placement?

[pglewis]

With only 2 mic's, I'd probably go with one in the kick and one overhead. You're definitely going to be limited... and that 58 probably won't sound great as an overhead (I've never tried it, though).

[Shailat]

I doubt you can get any decent sound with out at least 1 condensor overhead.

[Proveras]

one over the floor tom, pointing the mid tom and the kick center,
and one a little more higher over the snare pointing the kick;
use the cymbals near to the toms, and the hit- hat near to the snare.

rec everything this way and then you can EQ to hear more of the cymbals or the kick, without problems with the rest of the drumkit.

this way even you can pan.

[James HE]

Or how about one over between the floor and the kick, up and pointing towards the snare (slightly) and one overhead.

Or maybe two overheads, but about 6 to 8 feet in front of the kit (this is if your room sounds good i.e. decent)

-jhe

[Tim Brown]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phillybean:
My digital 8-track is coming next week and I was wondering what would be the best way to utilize 2 mics for recording a drum kit.
They aren't drum mics, they're Shure SM58's. Can anybody tell me the best placement?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, Make sure that the Drumkit's tuned well!
I'm a drummer, and I can tell you right from the start that most drummers have no idea how to tune their kits. They usually tune the kit too low. The drumkit should sort of "sing". think about tuning your Bass or guitar so that the strings are completely loose and flopping! Does it ound good? I don't think so!
Have the Drummer play on the kit.

Put on a pair of headphones, and take an SM-58 in hand (Plugged into your recorder...)
walk around with the mic, until you find the place that gives you a good balance of the kit through the headphones-or where it sounds the best.
Remember-this is BEFORE you ever touch any E.Q. or effects.

If it's a Single kick drum-you're in Business!
Same basic situation-but instead of trying to find the swwetspot in the room-you're looking for the sweetspot in the kick drum!

For more slap-aim it at the mallet's striking point, for more "Boom" move it more towards the "Resonant head" side of the drum.

Record a few samples, and see what ya get, then play with the E.Q.

When recording Drums, I tend to Cut instead of Boost in regards to E.Q.

Tim

[Rev E]

With such limited options, I would try micing the kick and snare. Mic the snare a little further off than usual (4 inches outside the rim and halfway between the hi hat and snare). Most of the time, there is so much bleed from the hi-hat in the snare mic, that you may be able to make this work to your advantage. Still it won't be great, so don't go comparing your results to your CD's or anything.

I've gotten good results from 4 mics: AKG D112 on the kick, SM57 on smare and AKG 4033 and 4050 as overheads. If you get or can borrow a condensor, you should try it initially as an overhead or a hi-hat mic, depending on what sound you're going for.

Rev E

[MM2]

I agree with the last bunch of post's ideas about micing. The only thing I would NOT do is close mic the kick with one of the mics. I would use it somewhere else, with an ear for picking up a more ambient sound. The reason for this is that the only thing those Shure dynamics do NOT sound good on is a close-mic'd kick drum.

Take it from someone who has close mic'd the kick with a 57 many times before saying: "Why do I keep doing this? It sounds so crappy!"

And do yourself a big favor and pick up one or two condensers. Even the least expensive will do wonders for improving your sound. I never liked 58s for recording--57s are preferable.

[This message has been edited by MM2 (edited 06-28-2000).]

[Tim Brown]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MM2:

Take it from someone who has close mic'd the kick with a 57 many times before saying: "Why do I keep doing this? It sounds so crappy!"

And do yourself a big favor and pick up one or two condensers. Even the least expensive will do wonders for improving your sound. I never liked 58s for recording--57s are preferable.

[This message has been edited by MM2 (edited 06-28-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with ya on this-I was just trying t give him a way to Isolate the Kick for more control. I know that When I go for the 2 mic setup, (Well 3 in my case becvause of 2 kick drums).
The only thing I don't like about the Overhead-is I want more definition from the kicks. I can deal with an Overhead for the entire kit-but I like having the Kicks mic'ed themselves as well.

Tim

Hey Phillybean,

Look around and see if you can find a used PZM in good shape.
You can mount it to the ceiling (with one Screw) , and turn the whole ceiling into a microphone!
Great little mic's; to bad Radio Shack doesn't carry them anymore.
You may have to look on E-bay.
Brand new they were going for a little over $50.00 bucks.

Tim

[pglewis]

...what Tim said.

[regebro]

Wow! Loads of great ideas in this thread!

I gotta try some of these out ASAP, since I only have two decent microphones, one Audio Technica something or whatever and an Oktava MK-319. Before I use a third extremely crappy mike to get some oomph in the snare, but now I suddenly have lost all my previous conceptions on how to record drums.

Wow, maybe I can really get a decent drum sound out of this... good enough to actually warrant investing in a half-decent crash.

[Dom Franco]

Try the two mics from behind the kit, at ear level about six inches on either side of the drummers head. This way you will pick up what the drummer hears, and he will be pleased with the mix.

Use EQ if you need more bass or sizzle. You can also move the mics slightly and try again
untill you get a good balance.

Sincerely;

Dom Franco

[k daniel]

Well depending on your room..I'd most likely use them both as over heads. Recording drums is a VERY tricky deal, and studios with big bucks use tons of stuff for drums...but I've heard..(so Have you) recordings with just two over heads that sound great. Be open and experiment with the placement. Open up the sound a little with some Reverb if you have it, but be careful to not over do it. Above all, don't let it get to you if you don't get that perfect sound right away..have fun and keep at it.

[Brian Grey]

Only two mics and you're not looking to get any new ones? Man, what has this world come to? With only two mics, you're not going to get anything worth listening to. MAYBE for demo work, but nothing worthwhile. Unless you're going for that Led Zeplin "When the Levee Breaks" drums sound. Man, buy yourself some mics. ehh... I have to take a nap now, I'm stressed... two mics?!

[regebro]

Yesterday I finally got around to testing this. And my Octava 1dm over the snare and the AKG pointing to the kick from maybe half a metre did produce a sound that was pretty accurate of what was heard, with a nice stereo effect when I panned them differently. The tom-toms were to low, but that was the only problem.

I'm happy. But I still can't play drums.

[Spider]

classic reg,
well i cant either , '
but i run 7 mics of my kit , an audio technica pro25(i know) on the kick , sm57 on the snare , shure 16A'S(x2) as o/heads, an sm 58 on the floor tomn and these cheap ass behringer mics on the two toms ... but hey i get a great sound... very dynamic ... just the toms i dont think pick up everything ... im using a mic similar to the behringer 2000....any ideas ... apart from get new tom mics... i just need more dynamic range on a tight budget...

[skywalker]

Try it the old fashioned way! Ever heard For Squirrel's Mighty KC? IT's a neglected 90s song. Well Instead of tellign the band's story...I'll tell you my friend played drums on that track, and you know how they recorded it? miced what they wanted to record for that track and that's all Chris hit. I believe he said first 2 tracks was snare and kick from there is was a crash then a ride or something (not a drummer...cant remember what all is in the song either....)

Pain in the butt, but it'd work.

Derek

[jrlemonz]

I have a Peavey PVi vocal mic and some cheap ass Panasonic Mic that came with my comp. It has a hardwired cable with an 1/8" plug at the end. Thats all I had to work with to mic a drum set. I ended up doing it by laying the PV on the Bass drum facing the drummer. That picke dup the toms, bass drum, and the snare pretty well. I did a frequency analysis to find where the snare was in the EQ spectrum and jacked that. Brought out a punchy snare sound, it worked ok. I put the Panasonic 2 feet above the crash, facing down. It picked up all the cymbals and a little bit of a reverb typ thing from the room. It was good enough for me at the time. If none of the ways these people told you worked, try it.
Jake

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by skywalker
Try it the old fashioned way! Ever heard For Squirrel's Mighty KC? IT's a neglected 90s song. Well Instead of tellign the band's story...I'll tell you my friend played drums on that track, and you know how they recorded it? miced what they wanted to record for that track and that's all Chris hit. I believe he said first 2 tracks was snare and kick from there is was a crash then a ride or something (not a drummer...cant remember what all is in the song either....)

Pain in the butt, but it'd work.

Derek

MAN!!!

I never even Caught this!

For Squirrels!
I know their Drummer, Jack!
He used to play in a local Speedcore band called Brutal Assault back in the late 80's/early 90's.

He's a really good drummer man.

His brother Art's wife and my bass player Mick's wife are sisters.

That's wild man, I didn't know of anybody who had heard of them that wasn't a local.

Tim

[lazyboy]

They were the poor fella's who lost a couple of band members in a tourbus accident right? If my memory serves me, a bunch of kind of famous bands made a benefit record for them. Sad story.

[Diragor]

I experimented a LOT with recording drums using two mics way back in my Tascam 4-track days . I was using much crappier mics than you have too, and it still ended up sounding not too bad.

I used one mic as an overhead, directly centered over the kit, pointing down into the middle of it. The sounds picked up by that mic are the higher-end stuff, lots of cymbals and snare and the attack of the toms. The other mic is mostly for picking up toms and kick; it's placed a few feet in front of the kit, off-center, a few inches off the ground, aimed upwards towards the middle of the toms. If you have an odd number of toms you might not want to aim directly at the center tom, just lean toward the higher toms. Mixed together these two mics created a good full-sounding representation of the entire kit. I still have a cassette tape of the stuff I recorded this way, and I'm still really proud of it as an example of doing the most you possibly can with what you've got. I should mp3 that stuff.