Installing Audio Cables Through Double Wall

[Cudmasters Los]

1) I have electrical outlets in my double wall, (studio has its own power) where audio cables will be passing through. Will this pick up noise, and if so, would incasing the wires work, or what other suggestions do you guys have?

2) I am trying to figure the best way to hook up a headphone signal to the vocal room and the live recording room from the consol room. My room is cut in half in which 1 side is cut 1/4 / 3/4 the 1/4 of coarse being the vocal room. The other side(consol room) I have 2 outputs coming out of my mixer. I would like to have 1 for headphones, but I guess if I used both for each room I could unplug 1 for when I wanted to use the headphones, that would be the easy option. This by the way is with 2 independant headphone amps in each room not including the console room (Mixer). Or could I take 1 output(Mixer) splice the wire and solder the connections to the wallplates that the amps will be connected to in each room? Or what other suggestions do you have.

[apl]

1. Have a separate pass through for audio signals.

2. I'd have one headphone amp and put it in the control room.

[vestast]

I'd put the headphone amp in the vocal booth, not the control room. Let the vocalist have control over his/her own volume..

Just my 2 cents..

[Cudmasters Los]

apl 1. Have a separate pass through for audio signals.

2. I'd have one headphone amp and put it in the control room

I can't it has to pass right by the plugs. And I'm thinking of that, it's just that I've had alot of people tell me to let the artists have control because they will bother me too much and they are picky, control room would be easier.

i listened to your song, I like it nice mixdown

[frederic]

Seperate power from data from audio, always.

Regarding the headphone amp, I'd recommend not putting it in the vocal booth, unless you're working with the same musicians most of the time. I've found over the years that the more knobs and controls you give a musician or vocalist, often times a lot of time is wasted while they adjust their mix to "perfection" rather than focus on singing or playing their instrument. Put it outside the vocal booth, and wire it to a jack in parallel to the ones in teh vocal booth,let them adjust their mix in the console room, THEN walk in and "suffer" their settings.

[Cudmasters Los]

Originally Posted by frederic

Seperate power from data from audio, always.

Regarding the headphone amp, I'd recommend not putting it in the vocal booth, unless you're working with the same musicians most of the time. I've found over the years that the more knobs and controls you give a musician or vocalist, often times a lot of time is wasted while they adjust their mix to "perfection" rather than focus on singing or playing their instrument. Put it outside the vocal booth, and wire it to a jack in parallel to the ones in teh vocal booth,let them adjust their mix in the console room, THEN walk in and "suffer" their settings.

Lol, it would work both ways knowing and not knowing. Would 1 to 2 feet away from power source be good enough?

[frederic]

Yeah, probably more than enough. The more current draw your AC wiring provides (actual usage, not what the breaker is), the stronger the magnetic field. So if you're installing a outlet in the booth just to plug in a keyboard or a small pre-amp, it can be closer than if you're going to draw some serious power out of it.

Also seperate data from the audio, if there is going to be anyway. Ethernet cabling, serial cabling, midi cabling really should be seperate if you can do that.

[Cudmasters Los]

Originally Posted by frederic

Yeah, probably more than enough. The more current draw your AC wiring provides (actual usage, not what the breaker is), the stronger the magnetic field. So if you're installing a outlet in the booth just to plug in a keyboard or a small pre-amp, it can be closer than if you're going to draw some serious power out of it.

Also seperate data from the audio, if there is going to be anyway. Ethernet cabling, serial cabling, midi cabling really should be seperate if you can do that.

I have 12 inputs coming from the recording room to the console which is inbetween the door(seperating the 2 rooms) and the control window, which is 23 inches. The outlet next to the door which is where the internet and the 12 inputs, all in that 23" of space. I guess i could move the internet and the electrical outlet under the window which would give me an extra 3 feet of distance, however, when the cables come up to plug into their respective places, they would be near each other

[vestast]

Originally Posted by frederic

Regarding the headphone amp, I'd recommend not putting it in the vocal booth, unless you're working with the same musicians most of the time. I've found over the years that the more knobs and controls you give a musician or vocalist, often times a lot of time is wasted while they adjust their mix to "perfection" rather than focus on singing or playing their instrument. Put it outside the vocal booth, and wire it to a jack in parallel to the ones in teh vocal booth,let them adjust their mix in the console room, THEN walk in and "suffer" their settings.

Hey Frederic - I guess I was speaking from my experience. I have an ART HPFX which allows the vocalist to add reverb to his monitored voice and adjust the volume of his voice and the volume of the mix from my DAW.

I find it works better to allow the musician to set his own volumes. It's much easier IMO than letting me decide what I think HE should hear...

EDIT - Man I'm having a hard time reading lately. I just realized that you basically said the same thing as me in terms of allowing them to adjust the mix.... Sorry

[frederic]

Vestat,

I wasn't suggesting that the engineer control the mix - on the contrairy - but I was suggesting that they configure their mix outside the booth, so when they walk inside, it is what it is - to avoid mid-take adjustments and distractions.

I've run into this quite a bit in the past, whereas vocalists (especially ones with large egos) tend to spend more time bitching about the headphone mix and playing with knobs and such in the vocal booth, rather than doing what they are paid to do - sing gloriously.

And there really is no right or wrong answer here, it's one of those things that we form preferences for over time. I'm merely sharing my experience (and to some degree, frustrations) with certain aspects of commercial studio recording.

Invariably what has happened, is after much time is wasted with adjustment of equipment, knobs, headphone mixes, guitar amps and such, is the band or artists get the bill not realizing how much time they waste, then get pissed off. Of course it's their own fault.

Years ago we had a client (local garage band with many gigs) come in for a week long session... which came out of a 3 day booking. Across the week (week being 10-12 hour days) they wasted at least one day's worth of recording time being ego driven, uncooperative morons. After some encouragement in the beginning, I and my partner just decided to keep quiet about it and just record them, and if they want to piss away their paid-for time, so be it.

Me on the other hand, I prefer efficiency mostly because efficiency implies less distractions and inconvienences, which I firmly believe makes for a better recording environment.

Guitarists should only worry about their equipment, sound, and playing, whereas drummers should do the same for their kit. The bickering and in-fighting with each other, and the engineers, is a waste of time for everyone - and it wastes their cash.

While the vocal booth mix is very minor as compared to a lot of my experiences with unorganized, uncooperative customers, it's at least related and no less a waste of time and money.

It's one thing to twiddle the mix together in a few minutes, and most people do that. However, get one guy who wastes 2 hours setting the mix in his cans, and you'll know what i mean. Iv'e had people stop mid-take (in a darn good one too) to readjust their headphone mix just a little more.

Seems like every annoying band or artist walked into my studio :-D

I have some wild stories too... even though it would reflect no more than 5% of my former customer base. We had one guy (bass or guitar, I can't remember), who would only use blue patch cords because they were better, and pitched a major fit about it to.

Some people are just whackjobs, what can I say.

[David Artis]

Be sure to stagger the opening in the seperate walls. Don't have each sitting directly across from each other.

[Cudmasters Los]

Originally Posted by David Artis

Be sure to stagger the opening in the seperate walls. Don't have each sitting directly across from each other.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

He means to have the cables enter the wall at one wall cavity, and then go through a stud into the adjacent wall cavity or further to exit through the opposite drywall. If you are using boxes or plates with jacks in them, same thing. Don't mount both of them in the same wall cavity. Preferably, all boxes should have a flange or faceplate to cover the hole, and seal any cables exiting the box on the inside of the cavity too. Use a gasket or seal behind the flange or faceplate, and seal cables at the drywall too. Or whatever you are using to penetrate the wall. One little hole or crack around the box or cables can seriously undermine your isolation. Even seal the holes in the studs too. For those of you who are building new walls, or have a studio on a wood floor structure, personally, I would penetrate the floor and go UNDER the walls to the next room. Of course, crawling under a floor is no fun, but many things are unpleasant when it comes to studio building
I didn't show any screws through the wall plates, but caulk them too!
fitZ

[Cudmasters Los]

[QUOTE=RICK FITZPATRICK]He means to have the cables enter the wall at one wall cavity, and then go through a stud into the adjacent wall cavity or further to exit through the opposite drywall.

I see, but why does going through a stud help. I was just going to run to the other side, and i have 2 electrical wall plates, cable internet,telephone (dsl), and audio lines sharing the same place between the wall, basically underneith the window. I'm trying to spread them out a little. What do I do? Concrete floor

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

It all depends on your isolation requirements. High isolation means the extra 5% effort to make it happen. Think of it this way, the air in the wall cavity is like a spring. When sound pressure vibrates a wall, molecules at the boundary want to excape any way they can, just like water. If there is a hole on one side of a cavity, the sound simply pressurizes the cavity. Even with no hole, airborn sound will vibrate the panel, thereby transferring this vibration to the air in the cavity. If there is a hole on the other side, it will simply move right through. All 1/4" jacks are HOLES and so are electrical outlets. Seperate them by one wall cavity and you have elimnated a flanking path for sound pressure. But if you go through a hole in a stud, CAULK it. BTW, the principle of MASS AIR MASS resonance is WHY sound transmits through walls. Only by decoupling one mass can you improve the sound transmission loss, and move the LF resonance to a lower frequency. However, even with RC, this is determined by the depth of the air cavity, stiffness of the RC and panel, and whether the cavity is filled with insulation.
fitZ

[Cudmasters Los]

Now this is even when I have a wall, space between the wall(2 by 4 size) and another wall, I would still go through studs!? What you said really makes alot of sense, I appreciate the input Wireless internet and cable internet as well as electricity are involved as well in the middle.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Now this is even when I have a wall, space between the wall(2 by 4 size) and another wall, I would still go through studs!?

Double walls are an animal of a different color No, they don't have to go through studs then(unless local code requires it but if not, use cable straps to fasten to studs), as there are NO seperate wall cavities in the same sense as single walls. The airgap is the same everywhere. However, penetrations through opposing leafs(wall mass such as drywall) should be offset by at least one stud with no rigid contact between these leafs by conduits, pipes etc. Everything should be in flex conduits or bare cables, such as Romex, snakes, Cat 5 etc. Distance and opposing insulation and caulking are the primary deterents to flanking leaks within double walls. But keep in mind, when wires cross from leaf to leaf in a double wall system, they span across an open area between the walls. NORMALLY, single walls have fireblocks between drywall leafs, but double walls do not. Thats why SOME county CODES require insulation to FILL the complete airgap up to 24" high from the floor, which acts as a firestop. I don't know if you had permits and inspection done on these double walls, but I would check with your local building codes or authority to find out if its required in your area. If it were me, I WOULD insulate the complete airgap at least 12" higher than the electrical outlets, just to be safe, as there is NOTHING to stop flames from climbing right up the airgap should a fire start within the wall because of electrical shorts or whatever. But thats me.
fitZ

[Cudmasters Los]

Thanks, It would be wise to do so, I did not have an inspection, just a person that builds studio's for a living, but I don't now if that factored in when he was building it, he never mentioned it anyways.

On another note, would wireless internet in the studio effect anything? Using cable internet, if that matters, all of these wires are in the middle of the wall.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

On another note, would wireless internet in the studio effect anything? Using cable internet, if that matters, all of these wires are in the middle of the wall.

Maybe your bank account if a roaming hacker finds it Actually, I don't really know. I think these frequencys are too high to affect audio but I could be wrong. I don't personally use it.
fitZ

[Cudmasters Los]

Lol, Thanks