I finally finished the acoustic treatment in my music room!

[Mind Riot]

Hi everybody,

I finally finished installing all the acoustic panels I built in my music room.

I built ten 2' by 4' 4" thick bass traps covered in blue canvas. They are made from pine 1" by 6" board cut to size and filled with either 8 pound per cubic foot density mineral wool or approximately 3 to 4 pound per cubic foot density fiberglass.

I also built ten 2' by 4' 2" thick panels covered in tan poplin. The frames were made with the same pine board and they were filled with the lighter 3 to 4 pound density fiberglass.

The bass traps are all installed in room corners, either wall/wall corners or wall/ceiling corners, spanning the corner to provide better performance due to the extra air space and positioning.

The tan two inch panels are installed in the three first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling, in the back of the room and on the side walls in other spots to control flutter echoes. They are all spaced out from the wall two inches to make them effective to lower frequencies.

I took the best pictures I could, but I don't have a wide angle lense and the room is only 8' by 11' so there's only so much room to get a good shot. Hopefully you'll be able to get oriented with what you're looking at. The front wall is obvious, but the back wall is the other wall with three bass traps and three tan panels one their sides stacked on top of one another. The wall with the window is to the right of the listening position. The pics more or less take you around the room clockwise.

The monitors are set up to form an equilateral triangle with my head, and sit on two inch thick isolation pads I made from 8 pound density mineral wool covered in the blue canvas. My recorder was transferring some vibration (hum) to the table when the drive spun up so I made one for it as well. You should be able to see them in the pics. The listening position is offset to the left side by just over four inches, and the ceiling first reflection panel is offset to match to avoid a skewed bass response at the listening position due to destructive interference. My head is located about a third of the way into the room from the front wall.

I would really appreciate knowing what you all think of it, I'm very pleased with how it all turned out. It looks much more professional and clean than I expected, and the color scheme worked out well. Kind of reminds me of a nice car interior.

[apl]

Cool! How's it sound?

[earworm]

insane man !! i've been drawing plans for doing exactly the same thing !!
but i was thinking about GREY and maybe some lightblue, not dark ; héhé

but i was never sure how much it would help my room,
can u please give us some details on what u can hear?

was there a slapback delay in the room before,
were there "dead" points where there was no bass (standing waves)

i still got these two probs... and was thinking bout building 4 bass traps,
one for every corner of my square room...

and yeah, tell us some more about the material u used to build these traps,
is there a reason why u choosed for that fiber glass and stuff, and not for
some sort of special sound insulation stuff?

cheers,
moi

[apl]

What design did you use for the bass traps?

Did you read Ethan Winer's stuff at www.ethanwiner.com?

[thane1200]

Sexxxxxxxy!

[reshp1]

Nice, I've been planning to do something similar, but I can't seem to get off my ass.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

When you say "Canvas", do you mean like......REAL canvas If so, I had to be a bearer of bad news. But CANVAS is waterproof ......which translates into NO TRANSPARANCY!! The weave is SEALED. That means, for broadband absorption, air molecules movement can NOT move through the absorbant material, which is required for it to work. Resistive absorbers do their job by FRICTION of air molecules within the "interstices" or fibers, to transduce the energy into heat. If the fabric is not open weave, then it is a reflective surface. Although, it will allow some low frequencys to enter simply because it is similar to a panel absorber. But then the absorbant material is acting like a dampener. At least thats my understanding. I'm sure it works to some extent, but if it is REAL canvas, you won't get the full benefit of the absorber.
My .02 only though. BTW, they LOOK great. Hope it isn't real canvas.
fitZ

[thane1200]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

When you say "Canvas", do you mean like......REAL canvas If so, I had to be a bearer of bad news. But CANVAS is waterproof ......which translates into NO TRANSPARANCY!! The weave is SEALED. That means, for broadband absorption, air molecules movement can NOT move through the absorbant material, which is required for it to work. Resistive absorbers do their job by FRICTION of air molecules within the "interstices" or fibers, to transduce the energy into heat. If the fabric is not open weave, then it is a reflective surface. Although, it will allow some low frequencys to enter simply because it is similar to a panel absorber. But then the absorbant material is acting like a dampener. At least thats my understanding. I'm sure it works to some extent, but if it is REAL canvas, you won't get the full benefit of the absorber.
My .02 only though. BTW, they LOOK great. Hope it isn't real canvas.
fitZ

I aslo though about that after I originally read the post, but it "looks" like a looser weave from the pictures.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Mind Riot

I built ten 2' by 4' 4" thick bass traps covered in blue canvas. They are made from pine 1" by 6" board cut to size and filled with either 8 pound per cubic foot density mineral wool or approximately 3 to 4 pound per cubic foot density fiberglass.[/IMG]

I'm in the process of doing exactly the same thing, but I've also been boring holes in the frames. Talk about mind-deadening work!

And thanks for all the photos, but can you get a shot or two showing how you hung those traps at odd angles? I'm especially curious about the ones straddling the corners where wall meets wall and the ones straddling the corners where wall meets ceiling. What did you do there?

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by earworm

insane man !! i've been drawing plans for doing exactly the same thing !!
but i was thinking about GREY and maybe some lightblue, not dark ; héhé

but i was never sure how much it would help my room,
can u please give us some details on what u can hear?

was there a slapback delay in the room before,
were there "dead" points where there was no bass (standing waves)

i still got these two probs... and was thinking bout building 4 bass traps,
one for every corner of my square room...

and yeah, tell us some more about the material u used to build these traps,
is there a reason why u choosed for that fiber glass and stuff, and not for
some sort of special sound insulation stuff?

cheers,
moi

The bass is tight and controlled, though I admit not perfectly flat. You never really can have perfectly flat response in a room like this. The stereo imaging is pinpoint, you feel like you can reach out with your finger and touch the spot where each instrument is panned. I'm very happy with it, and look forward to working in this room now.

The material I used was from a few sources, but if you're looking to build something like this the best stuff is something like Owens Corning 703 or 705, or another fiberglass or mineral wool equivalent. You want semi rigid fiberglass or mineral wool, about 3 to 8 pounds per cubic foot density. And the Owens Corning stuff and many other manufacturers stuff IS designed for sound insulation. Generally, if it's intended to be used for sound treatment, they'll have sound absorption specs for it.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by apl

What design did you use for the bass traps?

Did you read Ethan Winer's stuff at www.ethanwiner.com?

Yes, Ethan taught me most of what I know about practical application of acoustic treatment. Placement, materials, all that I learned from Ethan.

I just built simple pine frames out of 1" by 6" board, and loaded them with the mineral wool or fiberglass, then covered them in fabric.

I actually am co-moderator at Ethan's acoustics forum. I guess I picked things up pretty well, so he asked me to help him run it and field some of the easier questions. I was quite flattered.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

When you say "Canvas", do you mean like......REAL canvas If so, I had to be a bearer of bad news. But CANVAS is waterproof ......which translates into NO TRANSPARANCY!!
My .02 only though. BTW, they LOOK great. Hope it isn't real canvas.
fitZ

Don't worry Rick, I'm not that dumb. I knew what I was doing going into this. The fabric is similar to canvas, but not as thick and not sealed. I did the 'breath test' on it before I got it, and you can easily breathe through THREE layers of the stuff with almost no effort. You can also easily see light through the weave of one layer of it.

But when I went to describe it, canvas seemed like the closest thing to it. It FEELS sort of like canvas, but it's lighter. It's still tough, but it's not the same. I ran across some real canvas after I started the project and I see what you mean. The real stuff would never work.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

I'm in the process of doing exactly the same thing, but I've also been boring holes in the frames. Talk about mind-deadening work!

And thanks for all the photos, but can you get a shot or two showing how you hung those traps at odd angles? I'm especially curious about the ones straddling the corners where wall meets wall and the ones straddling the corners where wall meets ceiling. What did you do there?

May I ask, why are you boring holes in the frames? It would seem that you're going for more absorption by having more exposed fiberglass, but I would wonder if the result will really be worth it. Another thing is that I would think it would weaken the frame when you go to hang it. What density of fiberglass or mineral wool are you going to put in it? Because my bass traps that are filled with 8 pound density mineral wool are quite heavy (24 pounds). I don't think they'd hold up with a bored frame like that.

I hung the wall/ceiling traps from a hook in the stud almost at the top of the wall. I put screw in eyelets in the frames about at the midpoint of them lengthwise. I then tied them to the hook from both eyelets using some really cool knots I learned. Cable or wire rope would probably be better, but it would be more expensive and you'd need clamps and all that jazz.

I used a bowline to secure to the eyelet in the frame, then ran the rope out approximately to the distance to the hook, then brought it back and looped it through the first eyelet again and tied a knot called a tautline hitch. It's a really cool knot that's a friction hitch.

It will hold whatever load you put on it, but you can easily slide the knot up and down the rope and adjust the length. So I did this on both eyelets and that way I could adjust both sides to get it just where I wanted.

Worked great, but you have to bear in mind that knots reduce a ropes working load by up to 40%, so get a rope that will easily handle double the weight of the trap.

I can find the link to the page where I learned the knots if you want it. Here's a pic of the hanging method of one of my traps.

[DDev]

Those look very nice (I've been waiting for your response on the "canvas" material before I chipped in anything.

I, too, am contemplating building some panels like these so it is great to see/hear your story. I do have a couple of my own questions as well.

1. For your 4" thick traps, did you use 4" thick 703/mineral wool or is it 2" of insulation and 2" of air space?

2. I can't tell from the pictures but how did you mount your 2" thick units that are 2" off the wall?

Thanks for sharing.

Darryl.....

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

The fabric is similar to canvas, but not as thick and not sealed. I did the 'breath test' on it before I got it, and you can easily breathe through THREE layers of the stuff with almost no effort. You can also easily see light through the weave of one layer of it.

Hello MR. Well thats good. I figured it was just a "word" thing. You've posted enough here to know the difference. I was mainly trying to let other people know NOT to use material like canvas. Some newer members might not understand the principle of resistance absorbers, seeing how batt type insulation is used in walls, they might get confused, so I thought it would help to clarify it. Your panels look great though. I love the color. Where did you get the material? You say it looks like canvas, but do you know the type of material it really is? Thanks for sharing. Oh, by the way, what brand of mineral wool is that? The chicken wire was a good idea too. Well, I'm sure it sounds great too, have you done any recordings or mixed in the room since you've put them up?
fitZ

[DDev]

Originally Posted by Mind Riot

I actually am co-moderator at Ethan's acoustics forum.

OK, I've gotta ask this since I just wasted an hour trying to find it. Where is Ethan's acoustics forum?

Thanks,
Darryl.....

[Mind Riot]

>1. For your 4" thick traps, did you use 4" thick 703/mineral wool or is it 2" of insulation and 2" of air space?<

Four inches thick mineral wool or fiberglass. You need the mass to absorb low frequencies.

>2. I can't tell from the pictures but how did you mount your 2" thick units that are 2" off the wall?<

I just used three and a half inch common nails hammered into the frames with two inches sticking out at four points on the frame, then tied rope to the two top nails and hung it on heavy duty picture hangers. They're very lightweight. No prob!

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

Hello MR. Well thats good. I figured it was just a "word" thing. You've posted enough here to know the difference. I was mainly trying to let other people know NOT to use material like canvas. Some newer members might not understand the principle of resistance absorbers, seeing how batt type insulation is used in walls, they might get confused, so I thought it would help to clarify it. Your panels look great though. I love the color. Where did you get the material? You say it looks like canvas, but do you know the type of material it really is? Thanks for sharing. Oh, by the way, what brand of mineral wool is that? The chicken wire was a good idea too. Well, I'm sure it sounds great too, have you done any recordings or mixed in the room since you've put them up?
fitZ

Yeah, for those that are reading this thread, for fabric to work acoustically it needs to be a loose enough weave for air to pass through it easily. Tight weave synthetic fabrics will block air and thus reflect some sounds instead of passing them through to the fiberglass to be absorbed.

A simple way to check for this is to hold up the fabric to your mouth and try to breathe through it. You should be able to with little effort. Most soft fabrics will do well as long as the breath test works.

I got my fabrics at Wal Mart, but there's something I should mention. The canvas like material I got was on sale for a dollar a yard and I got almost a whole bolt. But normally it's five bucks a yard!

Another thing I should mention that will make the whole process a LOT easier if you do something similar. When you're getting your fabric, try your best to get a 60 inch wide bolt. Most bolts are 36 inches wide, but some, like the canvas like stuff I got, are sixty inches wide. This width works extremely well for 2' by 4' frames four inches thick, because once you've wrapped the fabric around the 2' width of the frame it comes back to your starting point almost perfectly with about an inch to fold over. Trust me, if you can get a 60 inch wide bolt it is totally worth it.

The mineral wool I got from a company called McMaster Carr, but if you can find it locally I'd strongly recommend that. I had to pay ridiculous shipping for this stuff. I live in a rural area and couldn't find anything within 200 miles of me, so I had to order it.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by DDev

OK, I've gotta ask this since I just wasted an hour trying to find it. Where is Ethan's acoustics forum?

Thanks,
Darryl.....

http://www.musicplayer.com

Click on the forums link, and scroll down. It's called "Ethan Winer: Acoustics Forum".

[DDev]

Thanks!!

Darryl.....

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Mind Riot

May I ask, why are you boring holes in the frames? It would seem that you're going for more absorption by having more exposed fiberglass, but I would wonder if the result will really be worth it.

It's true, I have no idea if the end result will be worth the effort, but I just couldn't bear to cover all that fiberglass with a solid wood frame. If I've done the math right (and I probably haven't), the sides of a 2'X4' panel of 4" thick fiberglass add up to a little over 3 square feet of surface area...per panel. I wanted to reclaim a little of that.

Originally Posted by Mind Riot

Another thing is that I would think it would weaken the frame when you go to hang it

I considered that, too, but after boring holes in an experimental plank, I found that the holes didn't make much difference, and in fact they lightened the load (and created an enormous amount of sawdust). However, I haven't assembled a full panel yet, so I may discover later that the holes were a mistake. But I'm feeling pretty confident right now. (I'm using Johns Manville 817, by the way, which is 6pcf.)

Thanks for adding the pic that shows how you hung the panels in the corners.

One more question, Riot. If you were going to make more traps, would you still use the chicken wire, or do you think that the stapled cloth is enough to keep the mineral wool from falling out?

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

One more question, Riot. If you were going to make more traps, would you still use the chicken wire, or do you think that the stapled cloth is enough to keep the mineral wool from falling out?

No, I wouldn't. I actually abandoned it halfway through. The pic with it in it is the first trap I made. The fabric is plenty.

[borntoplease]

i posted over in ethans forum, but i'll ask you a question here to... how much do each of these weigh, and what was your total cost?

also... i wanted to attatch a diagram of my room, but i couldnt on the other forum, so i did it here and maybe you can check it out. i just feel pretty overwhelmed with this whole acoustic treatment thing...

my name over on ethans forum is "benjamin james" and my post was called "sound treating my small room"...

any advice would be cool.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by borntoplease

i posted over in ethans forum, but i'll ask you a question here to... how much do each of these weigh, and what was your total cost?

also... i wanted to attatch a diagram of my room, but i couldnt on the other forum, so i did it here and maybe you can check it out. i just feel pretty overwhelmed with this whole acoustic treatment thing...

my name over on ethans forum is "benjamin james" and my post was called "sound treating my small room"...

any advice would be cool.

The heaviest ones weigh 24 pounds each, those are the ones loaded with 8 pound density mineral wool. The other ones with the lighter stuff (about half as dense, though I don't have the specs) are 14 pounds. The two inch thick panels are about 7 or 8 pounds.

I spent about $600 total, but that includes a number of screwups, some cheap, some spendy. If I were to do it all again I could probably do it for about $400.

[studiomaster]

It simply looks awesome and professional! Good job mate!

How does the room sound now?