I'm bummed...

[7string]

I've been working on my project for over a year. I was new to the home recording thing when I started. I live out in the middle of nowhere so there is no immediate help available, read - objective ears. So I'm basically trying my best to get my songs to sound THEIR best with little knowledge on just how to accomplish that. I just wanted to get them as close as possible so that the ME didn't laugh when he heard my mixes. I did many things to accomplish what I wanted to hear and to get them to sound the way I wanted them to. My confidence in my mixes was at a high and they were starting to sound good to me...

Then a few months ago, I discovered this board. Wow! Tips! Tricks! Pointers! Techniques! Some actual guidance! I started lurking.

BAM! Confusion!

Compress individual tracks.
Don't compress individual tracks.
Compress across the bus.
Don't compress across the bus.
Master it yourself.
Send it to a professional ME. (Of course, the best idea)
Record effects while tracking.
Don't record effects while tracking.
If it sounds good to you then it's right!
But what if compressing across the bus sounds good to me?
Make it sound the best you can at the source.
If the source can't be fixed in the mix, re-cut it.
Compress only the low end instruments in a bus.
etc., etc., etc.

Sheesh... I've totally lost all my confidence in my mixes. They sound good to me but they won't to anybody else and the ME will not be able to work with them because of something I did or didn't do. I'm too old for this. Guess it's back to:

Welcome to Wal-Mart!

[NL5]

Have you tried posting in the MP3 clinic? It has helped me SO MUCH.

[7string]

Originally Posted by NL5

Have you tried posting in the MP3 clinic? It has helped me SO MUCH.

No. I've mainly stayed in the Recording Techniques and Mixing/Mastering forums since this is what I was doing. I'll check out the MP3 Clinic though. But an MP3 isn't really representative of an unmastered mix, is it?

[NL5]

It's not as good as a 24 bit master, no. But it will let people help you with what is wrong, and tell you what is right. Helped me far more than any of the other sections of this board.

[Commander]

If it's of any use to you, I always have a compressor across the main outputs of my desk and I never record effects or compression with a track. Best thing is to find an artist similar to the type of music you are composing, listen to the CD in your studio, and if your mixes sound like the CD then you are on the right track!

[7string]

Originally Posted by NL5

It's not as good as a 24 bit master, no. But it will let people help you with what is wrong, and tell you what is right. Helped me far more than any of the other sections of this board.

Wow. I checked out a few posts and a few songs. Those guys are pretty brutal and I already don't want to post a song.

What does this mean in your signature?

PM me if you need an MP3 hosted for the Mixing Clinic

[NL5]

Originally Posted by 7string

Wow. I checked out a few posts and a few songs. Those guys are pretty brutal and I already don't want to post a song.

What does this mean in your signature?

PM me if you need an MP3 hosted for the Mixing Clinic

It means I can host an MP3, so people can download it and listen to it in the mix clinic.

You're right - some people in there can be brutal, but others are very helpful. Guess what tho - some of the most brutal people are the most helpful.

You will learn a lot about YOUR recordings by posting them. I GUARANTEE there have been worse songs than yours posted.

Just do it!

[7string]

Originally Posted by Commander

If it's of any use to you, I always have a compressor across the main outputs of my desk and I never record effects or compression with a track. Best thing is to find an artist similar to the type of music you are composing, listen to the CD in your studio, and if your mixes sound like the CD then you are on the right track!

Well, see? That's right back at the beginning for me. That's what I was told when I started this project. I always thought that my mixes were sounding pretty good and then I read in here that all the stuff that I was doing to GET them sounding good was wrong, right, do it, don't do it. Get what I mean? Who do you believe?

This is what I know. I used whatever techniques I could to get the sound that I wanted. NOW some of them may be wrong depending on who you talk to. And when it gets to the ME it may cause problems. The only thing I wanted to do in the first place was get my mixes to something that the ME was used to getting. So, since I don't KNOW what an ME is used to getting as far as mix goes, I just made them sound as good as I could to ME.

But that could be wrong??? Sheesh... Do you want fries with that?

[7string]

Originally Posted by NL5

It means I can host an MP3, so people can download it and listen to it in the mix clinic.

You're right - some people in there can be brutal, but others are very helpful. Guess what tho - some of the most brutal people are the most helpful.

You will learn a lot about YOUR recordings by posting them. I GUARANTEE there have been worse songs than yours posted.

Just do it!

Cool. How does that work? The mp3 hosting? How do you get the mp3?

I'm going to think about it before posting a song. I've just lost so much confidence in what I've done. I'm tempted to just send out all the raw tracks and have them mixed by a pro. But in the back of my mind I keep hearing, "They're OK!"

[Commander]

Originally Posted by 7string

I used whatever techniques I could to get the sound that I wanted. NOW some of them may be wrong depending on who you talk to.

Some of the best records were made that way ...

[7string]

Originally Posted by NL5

Just do it!

Hokay... I just dood it.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by 7string

Hokay... I just dood it.

I listened. I hope I wasn't brutal...

[7string]

Originally Posted by Rokket

I listened. I hope I wasn't brutal...

Nah, he was in The Green Mile. Actually you were very helpful. Thanks much. I've already sharpened it up a bit. But I can't seem to separate the backup vocals and the lead vocal in that overlapping part. The lead vocal just gets lost. There's gotta be a way to fix that. I put some compression on the lead vocal but then I had to bring it up more in the mix. If I bring down the backup's they get lost to quickly. But still, I'm getting somewhere.

Thanks!

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by 7string

Nah, he was in The Green Mile. Actually you were very helpful. Thanks much. I've already sharpened it up a bit. But I can't seem to separate the backup vocals and the lead vocal in that overlapping part. The lead vocal just gets lost. There's gotta be a way to fix that. I put some compression on the lead vocal but then I had to bring it up more in the mix. If I bring down the backup's they get lost to quickly. But still, I'm getting somewhere.

Thanks!

Solo them and see how the background vocals fit with each other first, then bring in the lead vocal, and fix them together, then bring it back into the mix...

[7string]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Solo them and see how the background vocals fit with each other first, then bring in the lead vocal, and fix them together, then bring it back into the mix...

Exactly what I did. Maybe the song is just too busy. In the chorus there's the rhythm section going on, the twin guitars as well as the lead and backup vocals. But I just can't believe that it would cause such a problem!

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by 7string

Exactly what I did. Maybe the song is just too busy. In the chorus there's the rhythm section going on, the twin guitars as well as the lead and backup vocals. But I just can't believe that it would cause such a problem!

You'll figure it out. You got it this far. Just walk away from it for a bit and let your ears rest. Or listen to anything except this song. Sometimes we get too close and it's hard to figure out what's wrong. We get used to it and it doesn't sound wrong anymore. Come back in a day or two and try it again...

[7string]

Originally Posted by Rokket

You'll figure it out. You got it this far. Just walk away from it for a bit and let your ears rest. Or listen to anything except this song. Sometimes we get too close and it's hard to figure out what's wrong. We get used to it and it doesn't sound wrong anymore. Come back in a day or two and try it again...

Yep. That's what I'm doing. I've shut it down for the night. I'm far too tired and far too buzzed (darn beer anyway) and I have to go to court tomorrow to fight my idiot brothers to keep my mother out of a nursing home. I'm not looking forward to it.

Thanks for all your help! We'll continue this in a day or so.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by 7string

Yep. That's what I'm doing. I've shut it down for the night. I'm far too tired and far too buzzed (darn beer anyway) and I have to go to court tomorrow to fight my idiot brothers to keep my mother out of a nursing home. I'm not looking forward to it.

Thanks for all your help! We'll continue this in a day or so.

Good luck! In court and the mix!

[7string]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Good luck! In court and the mix!

Thanks man! I absolutely HATE court!

[chessrock]

Rather than reply to your MP-3 link, I think it would be perhaps more helpful if kept in the Mixing forum ... as I think this is more of a general mixing suggestion than any specific recommendations about your recording ...


After listening, my initial feeling / suspicion is that your monitors and the room in which you are monitoring are in serious need of help. There are things about your mix that tend to be somewhat typical of mixes done on headphones, home speakers, or even computer speakers. They sound like they were done by someone who can't fully hear what he's doing.

My first bit of advice would be not to spend any money on mastering. It would be wasted $$ for the most part. Instead, put that money towards a set of good monitors and some accoustical treatment or design. Spend a lot of time learning your monitors ... listen to all of your favorite records through them; compare them, directly, to your own mixes and truly learn what your stuff sounds like.

[ryanlikestorock]

There are two main ideas to keep in your head at all times. 1. Online message boards of audio engineers is not your audience. Take the good and learn from the bad. 2. The ultimate rule is that whatever you're doing to make it sound the way you want it to sound - is right.

It's really easy to get caught up in other people's ideas about equipment and process. It's always great to know what other people are doing, then make a decision whether you're going to follow their ideas. Maybe what one engineer does every session isn't going to work for you most of the time, except for that one time it does. So, keep those ideas in the back of your mind.

I've found it very helpful to attempt a mix without any EQ, compression or effects. Just levels and panning. Then, make notes based on what you hear. It's really really easy to throw a compressor (or hundreds of them) on everything and ruin your mix.

[7string]

Originally Posted by ryanlikestorock

There are two main ideas to keep in your head at all times. 1. Online message boards of audio engineers is not your audience. Take the good and learn from the bad. 2. The ultimate rule is that whatever you're doing to make it sound the way you want it to sound - is right.

It's really easy to get caught up in other people's ideas about equipment and process. It's always great to know what other people are doing, then make a decision whether you're going to follow their ideas. Maybe what one engineer does every session isn't going to work for you most of the time, except for that one time it does. So, keep those ideas in the back of your mind.

I've found it very helpful to attempt a mix without any EQ, compression or effects. Just levels and panning. Then, make notes based on what you hear. It's really really easy to throw a compressor (or hundreds of them) on everything and ruin your mix.

So true. I always try to apply a bit of what I read here and there just to see what works and what doesn't. The problem with "2. The ultimate rule is that whatever you're doing to make it sound the way you want it to sound - is right." is that it obviously ISN'T right if people are telling me the highs are too harsh, the verb is muddying everything, etc., because I thought it sounded right. Then again there are many different variables at work here. I wish there was a standard for ME's that says, "Bass Guitar - Vol = -8, EQ - Rolled off below 9picogigohertz, Reverb - None" and so on so that we know what exactly to give them. And if that wish came true it would be awesome... because that would mean that the Pam Anderson wish already came true...