SM58 vs C1000s!!

[Jamesie]

Hi guys!!

I wandering which of the two mics to get?! I know that the SM58 is awesome to use live right? and I've tested the AKG C1000s out and that sounds really good too. It has a much clearer sound and the vocals just seem to rise above all the other instruments etc. Is the SM58 better for using live? - I haven't tried it yet. When trying the C1000s, it seemed to produce loads of feedback - is this to do with it also being a condenser mic? And does anybody know if the SM58 creates this much feedback?? Also the C1000s has the extra bonus of being a condenser mic - is the SM58 as good in the studio?

Thanks very much!

Jamesie

[reshp1]

A condensor is much more sensitive than a dynamic. Also, dynamics tend to pick up things less as distance increases compared to a condensor. That's probably why you are getting feedback. They make condensors for live use that have very tight patterns and internal shockmounts, but for you average club gig with your average apathetic sound guy, I'd probably go with a dynamic.
In the studio, the SM58 will have many uses as well, but won't be nearly as clear as most condensors. I recommend taking a look at the sennheiser e835, they are sweet dynamic mics.

[mshilarious]

Wow, those are two completely different mics. You can use condensers live, but you can't use them the same way you do in a studio: for distant micing. Doesn't matter if it's condenser or dynamic, live sound is ruled by the concept of gain before feedback, and if you move the mics farther away, you get a lot less of it.

So if you have to have one mic for both, between those two, I'd pick the 58.

[tmix]

I have tried to use the C1000 many times in a live situation, and it only works when you are not allowing any of its signal to creep into the monitors. It is very feedback prone.
I have used it many times on drums and as an instrument mic, but never have been succesfull using it as a vocal mic except in the case where I had 2 mics on one vocalist. I sent the SM57 to the monitors and the C1000 to the mains.

Tom

[Massive Master]

Didn't they make the C-1000 illegal to use for any purpose other than a blunt weapon?

[noisedude]

If not, they should have. I wouldn't recommend them for any other use, that's for sure.

Unless you can't afford an SM57 for snare drum

[tmix]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

Didn't they make the C-1000 illegal to use for any purpose other than a blunt weapon?

I used mine for micing a bagpipe. I did not want to ruin anything else.

[DJL]

Originally Posted by Jamesie

Hi guys!!

I wandering which of the two mics to get?! I know that the SM58 is awesome to use live right? and I've tested the AKG C1000s out and that sounds really good too. It has a much clearer sound and the vocals just seem to rise above all the other instruments etc. Is the SM58 better for using live? - I haven't tried it yet. When trying the C1000s, it seemed to produce loads of feedback - is this to do with it also being a condenser mic? And does anybody know if the SM58 creates this much feedback?? Also the C1000s has the extra bonus of being a condenser mic - is the SM58 as good in the studio?

Thanks very much!

Jamesie

What are you going to use the mic for?

[Big Kenny]

No one wants you to get the c1000s. It was one of the first mics I bought and the first I got rid of.

[noisedude]

Same here.

[alba123]

We are using Shure 57s for vocals. I brought an EV N/D757 to try out at a small club one night. The vocals sounded clearer using the N/D757 on our system. We decided to replace the 57's with the EV's. But we have a small system. A Mackie 808s and 2-15" Yamaha cabinets. We are a 3 piece (bass, drums, guitar) doing R&R oldies and mic vocals only. One lead singer and two backing vocalists. With your system venue and style your mileage may vary. Hope this helps.

[Jamesie]

Thanks everybody for your input.

Reply to DJL

Originally Posted by DJL

What are you going to use the mic for?

Mics are for 3 female vocalists - one lead and two backing. so I'd be lookingto get 3 of the best suited mics.

Also to everybody - does the SM58 sound as good as the C1000s live? And how does the SM57 compare to the 58?

Thank-you!

Jamsie

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by Jamesie

Also to everybody - does the SM58 sound as good as the C1000s live? And how does the SM57 compare to the 58?

Thank-you!

Jamsie

Are you reading these posts?
For live you want the 58 0r a senn 8_5 or an ev. These can work out in the studio for you, although they would not be a first choice (or second or third, maybe fourth depending on the song and the voice etc etc etc........

[TexasMusicForge]

Uhhhh, Jamesie, considering the other comments on the C1000, you'd better *hope* the SM 58 sounds better...

The 57 and 58 are probably the most widely-used mics in the world for a reason. They're both excellent mics and will last forever unless you're playing rugby with them in your pocket.

The 58 has a warmer sound and tends to get a lot more bass in the sound when a vocalist gets right up on it (it's called a "bass proximity effect"). It will pick up sounds from straight ahead and both sides (called an "omnidrectional mic"). The 57 has a sharper, cleaner and more treble sound and will only pick up what it is pointed at (called a "unidirectional mic"). If your vocalists will each have a mic, pick the 57 since it will be less prone to feedback than a 58. If you have vocalists sharing a mic, the 58 is better since it is omnidirectional.

I'm going to recommend the 57 for your use. It will give your vocals a clear, punchy presence in your mix. You'll find 57s in regular use in the world's best studios with big mic collections - there is a reason for that. They are also wonderful mics for producing a slightly compressed, punchy sound from acoustic guitars, guitar amps and just about anything else you set in front of them. I own both 58s and 57s and can't recommend them highly enough - I wish all the rest of my gear worked as well and as cheaply.

Best regards,

Tio Ed

[noisedude]

Jamesie - pin your ears back! For the benefit of those without instant replay, those Big Kenny nuggets of correct advice again:

NOT the C1000S. No! Stop looking at it. You have ears, right? Well for the sake of your ears do not even think about getting a C1000S for vocals! Got it? Ok.

I'm not a huge SM58 fan because many live venues have honky PAs and low ceilings that mean the SM58's lack of top end sound can cost you dear. Can you say, "singing through a sock", or "I can't hear the words"? Course you can.

So for your live stuff you are looking at these options:
- Sennheiser E845. Better than the E835 and brilliant IMHO on female vocalists.
- Audio Technica AE3300. The capsule from the AT4033. Tonnes of detail, really high output and clarity.
I'd choose one of those two. Others I have used and liked on female vocals are:
- Shure Beta 57. I'd want one of the first two, not this for females, but it's got that whole Shure thing going on. I imagine it will last, and it sorts out the absence of top end from the SM57. Better on blokes or guitar cabs though, IMO.
- EV N/D757. Only used these a little as my friend owns a pair. Seem to be very durable, high output and pretty decent sound all over.

Hope that helps - I think any of these four mics would do you happily in the live setting or the studio. The best suited to recording would be the AE3300 for me, but make sure you stick the high-pass and the pad on for male singers or the signal will be too much. There seems to be a big proximity effect on it that means starting back and then moving up to close mic'ing in one take can really kill your headphones!!

Hope that helps.

[wilkee]

If you like the sound of the C1000s (and if you do ignore the other post's to the contrary) then try the C900 this is the same capsule but set up better for live work. It sounds gorgeous on all the Live females* that I have worked with. In this role I prefer it to my E865's

Tony

* The one's that were dead were pretty quiet.

[noisedude]

The March award for Best Joke Relating to Use of the Word Live goes to Tony Wilkes for that post right there!

[noisedude]

And Tony - I used the E865 recently and I wasn't too enamoured with it for some reason. I couldn't put my finger on it but I was using it where I'd normally have an E845 and the female singer involved lost the 'sweetness' in the sound of her voice, it was cold by comparison. Hmmmmm .... YMMV!

[wilkee]

Originally Posted by noisedude

And Tony - I used the E865 recently and I wasn't too enamoured with it for some reason. I couldn't put my finger on it but I was using it where I'd normally have an E845 and the female singer involved lost the 'sweetness' in the sound of her voice, it was cold by comparison. Hmmmmm .... YMMV!

I have a couple of E845's that I put up when I know the singer is not one that I know will look after the equipment. There was one guy the other week that swung one of my 865's around his head by the cable. He stopped it when I told him if he did it again the mic would be covered in goose fat and shoved up his arse, and that would probably make a better sound than his singing. Sometimes I find a little tact goes a long way.

Anyway I know what you mean about the sound of the 865's they sound pretty flat and that is why I probably prefer them as I can then dial in exactly the EQ that I think suits the singer.

Tony

[Han]

It seems to me that it's kind of a habit to bash the C1000, not only on these forums, but also on other forums.

The C1000 isn't. or better wasn't because I've sold them, my first choice on vocals but neither is the SM57/58.

The C1000 though can sound decent on a number of applications, if I had to make a choice between a 57/58 and a C1000 I would prefer the C1000 on horns, saxophone, female vocals and percussion for example, but also on distorted guitar and bass amps.

And if you don't have any success with the C1000 you'd use a better pre and try harder.

So, my dear friends, the C1000 isn't a very good mic, but neither is the 57. You can buy much better mics these days for the same or less $$.

Have a nice day.

[noisedude]

Tony - yes, what I like about the 845 in particular is that it has a lot of the 'warmth' and 'punch' of the old Shures but with all that missing end put back in. For most live venues that I play in, the voicing really works.

I'm not expert enough on EQ to go out of my way to use a flat mic purely to rely on my own alterations. Mine tend to be the larger changes to deal with the more obvious problems in the mix. Perhaps the 865 would work better for me if I was a little more adept.

[Jamesie]

Thanks everybody again! I'm going to have a look at the E845's, and research a bit on them - and I think that the C1000 is out now!!

Jamesie