How to: Drum triggering?

[Speedy VonTrapp]

I've spent a little time now looking for answers to my question here, and I've gotten some, but I'd like a bit more, so I've decided to ask a question.

How does one go about triggering a drum kit? This is a potentially long answer, but that's what I'm looking for.

I know that I can buy parts from Radio Shack for the triggers, and I've seen some diagrams on how to put them together, etc.

Most of the information that I've found is pretty limited to that, however.

Can someone give me a blow by blow of the entire process?

Say I buy the parts, and make some triggers. What is next?

Do I need to buy some sort of processor for the triggers? Can they be connected to my computer via midi cables? I really just don't know what to do with them once I've got them made.

Is it better to use them on a fake kit, or put them on a real kit, and use both sounds mixed to taste? Certainly, there would be just opinion issues with this question, but that's ok.

I'm looking to find out what it will take from start to finish. If someone can point me to an article that does this, or let me know what I would need to buy, as far as hardware that the triggers plug into, that would be awesome.

Thank you,

-Speedy

[notbradsohner]

you can buy triggers, like 100 bucks for a 5 pack. Most of them either have xlr or 1/4 inch connectors. Attach them to your drumkit. Im not sure if you can input them into the computer, but you need something like a alesis dm5. This contains all of the sounds, and you plug each of the triggers into a seperate input. You can assign each trigger a sound on the drum module, and bam! Take the stereo outs into your computer and you are all set to record stereo drums.

[billmcdonald]

First off, triggers arent that expensive, I think it would be a better idea just to buy some real triggers instead of building your own.

Now, all a trigger does is says to the module "hey, Ive been hit!" and the module is like "ok, now make THIS sound..." and the sound comes out of the pa/headphones/whatever. The triggers just pick up the hit from the drum, and the module makes the sound.

The triggers hook up to the module with a simple 1/4 inch cable.

Theres plenty of good triggers, just look for reviews of the ones in your budget.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...?c=4776&c=4777

Theres also lots of different modules, they can be really expensive. This thing is really good bang for the buck.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/701700/

[mikeh]

You can not simply plug triggers into your computer. The trigger must feed an interface that converts the "pulse" to a "MIDI signal" which in turn triggers a sound.

As an example, an Alesis module has several 1/4' input (I believe 12)which the triggers plug into. Once the "pulse" reaches the module, the interface converts the signal to a MIDI message, this then triggers a MIDI note. The MIDI note "plays" a drum sound, which in turn is fed to an analog output (most drum modules have anywhere from 1 to 8 - 1/4" out puts) the signal then goes to a mixer our whatever device you use to "monitor" the actual sound.

Most drum modules that accept trigger inputs also have various control parameters to adjust the velocity, sensitivity and other controls to help you adjust the trigger to your playing style (hard hits vs. soft hits, etc)

[Mind Riot]

http://www.electronicdrums.com

It's a pay site, $20 a year, but SO worth it. I converted my old beat to hell Tama Rockstar kit to electronic using slightly modified plans on that site. I used to have Ddrum Red Shots, which are some of the better and more expensive external triggers. The internal design I have now stomps them so bad in sensitivity and response it's unreal.

Clip on or tape on external triggers will work, just not very well. For bass drum they're fine if you're not very fast, for toms the same, for snare work they fall woefully short. Just not fast enough response.

Building your own is not really that hard. Check out that site, there are some amazingly knowledgable guys on there that build DIY kits that can easily compete with Roland mesh head stuff.

[jonrusso99]

Depending on what software you are running you could use something like soundreplacer (Pro-tools). Save yourself all the wires and connections. Just get some good samples and either blend or replace the originals. I think this would be just as good and a lot more flexible. Any other opinions on this?

[MrKwik]

Here is a little write up I did of how I build vdrum type triggers out of old acoustic drums. And I wont charge you $20 like the other guy. His trick is to attach the trigger to a coffe can lid to effectively make the trigger bigger and then bury it in foam. It works but I like my way better. The first link is the snare I built and has part numbers and everything. The second link is just pictures but shows how I built a pair of trigger toms. I have also built several trigger cymbals out of these plastic practice cymbals but I cant remember the name of the company that makes them right this minute. They were dirt cheap though at like $20 for a 14" or 16" cymbal and they look like a regular cymbal but they are black soft plastic and designed for silent practice. I basically just hot glued a peizo to the underside of the bell. Doesnt work very well for a ride though. Just crash and effects.

As for triggering acoustic drums...it can work but its a real bitch to control false triggering. You pretty much have to deaden the drum heads down to the point that they dont vibrate at all. I have actually had some success doing this on a kick but thats about it. You have to spend alot of time playing with the settings of the brain module. Im not that patient.

http://thehill.servebeer.com/edrums/index.htm

http://thehill.servebeer.com/etom/index.htm

[Vectron]

Originally Posted by mikeh

You can not simply plug triggers into your computer.

That is no longer true. The "D-trig" by ferrarapercussion allows your ASIO
soundcard inputs to be connected directly to triggers or drum pads.
The commercial version should be released very soon.

[KeithCF]

I was going down this same route -- how to trigger drums, what to get, etc. It's much easier to mic your drums, lay down tracks, then use a sound replacement plug-in like Drumagog. Much easier and more controllable. You can also blend your live drum sound with the triggered drum sound. Check it out at www.drumagog.com.

Keith

[Speedy VonTrapp]

Wow, thanks for the huge replies, everyone. As usual, the people on this site are mega-helpful. I appreciate all of them!

So, to move on just a little bit, I'll do what I should have in the first post: Give you my set up.

I am running Cakewalk PA9. It's old, but the computer it's on is old, and I can't upgrade it all. At the present time, I do not have a kit of my own. I am assuming that it would be a pain in the ass to build the trigger set up and move it from kit to kit?

I have a Lexicon Core2 sound card. It's got 4 inputs. Old, and unsupported, but again, I can't upgrade now.

I've got a Yamaha MD4S mini-disk recorder, and a B-word UB1204FX-PRO mixer. Several mics include 2 57's, a 58, 1 SP B1, 1 Peavey Diamond V22, and 2 MXL 603's.

Right now, I'm just going with a kick, snare and overheads set up. I'd like to capture my drummers kit more. (he's got way too many drums in his kit, but there's no talking him out of them.)

The drumagog idea sounds like a good one, too. I've looked it up in the past. It is like a Drumkit From Hell, yes? Some really good samples to replace some of your hits with? If that's so, then is it a pain to replace every kick sound 500 times, or however many it's hit?

By the way, I notice that I said "is it a pain" a couple times. I'm not trying to avoid work. I'm willing to do it, for sure. I just don't want to have to do more than I have to, of course, if it would be senseless.

Would building a cage out of PVC (cheap is good) be the way for me to go?

It seems to me that I'd like to use a real kit to trigger so that I can use both sounds if it suited me. I prefer a real kit. I just don't have the tracks for it.

Thanks again, everyone!!

[Speedy VonTrapp]

Another question, would be how to make the high hat trigger work differently from open to closed?

[KeithCF]

Originally Posted by Speedy VonTrapp

Wow, thanks for the huge replies, everyone. As usual, the people on this site are mega-helpful. I appreciate all of them!

So, to move on just a little bit, I'll do what I should have in the first post: Give you my set up.

I am running Cakewalk PA9. It's old, but the computer it's on is old, and I can't upgrade it all. At the present time, I do not have a kit of my own. I am assuming that it would be a pain in the ass to build the trigger set up and move it from kit to kit?

I have a Lexicon Core2 sound card. It's got 4 inputs. Old, and unsupported, but again, I can't upgrade now.

I've got a Yamaha MD4S mini-disk recorder, and a B-word UB1204FX-PRO mixer. Several mics include 2 57's, a 58, 1 SP B1, 1 Peavey Diamond V22, and 2 MXL 603's.

Right now, I'm just going with a kick, snare and overheads set up. I'd like to capture my drummers kit more. (he's got way too many drums in his kit, but there's no talking him out of them.)

The drumagog idea sounds like a good one, too. I've looked it up in the past. It is like a Drumkit From Hell, yes? Some really good samples to replace some of your hits with? If that's so, then is it a pain to replace every kick sound 500 times, or however many it's hit?

By the way, I notice that I said "is it a pain" a couple times. I'm not trying to avoid work. I'm willing to do it, for sure. I just don't want to have to do more than I have to, of course, if it would be senseless.

Would building a cage out of PVC (cheap is good) be the way for me to go?

It seems to me that I'd like to use a real kit to trigger so that I can use both sounds if it suited me. I prefer a real kit. I just don't have the tracks for it.

Thanks again, everyone!!

Drumagog actually automatically replaces your hits with a sampled hit. You use it as a VST plug-in. Record your tracks, choose the Drumagog plug-in and the sample you want to use for each individual drum (kick, snare, etc.). It senses the audio "hit" and replaces it with the sampled sound. It works great -- you can download a demo at their site.

Keith

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by MrKwik

Here is a little write up I did of how I build vdrum type triggers out of old acoustic drums. And I wont charge you $20 like the other guy. His trick is to attach the trigger to a coffe can lid to effectively make the trigger bigger and then bury it in foam.

Um, no. The coffee can lid design is the free plan offered on electronicdrums.com to convert a Remo practice pad to electronic. It is only one of many designs on that site.

My drums are acoustics converted with an internal trigger like yours, except I didn't spring for the Roland foam cones. Also, I used a height adjustable bridge design so that the trigger could be raised and lowered to get the response just right. Another thing I did was use equal amounts of foam on top and bottom of the piezo to isolate it from the drum. I didn't want it to trigger when the drum was bumped, only when played on and I didn't think one layer of 3M foam tape would do it.

Your drums look nice and I'm sure they work great, but maybe you should know what you're talking about before you slag someone else. Electronicdrums.com has designs for Remo practice pad conversion, acoustic conversion to elecronic, e-cymbals, a hybrid design that allows a set to be electronic AND acoustic (and I'm not talking about slapping triggers on an acoustic set), and two electronic hihat controller designs, one for simple open/closed operation (ala Alesis DM5) and one for variable control like the newer stuff. Along with that there's a forum with some VERY knowledgable people with all kinds of info on modules, design ideas and variations, and where to find supplies for good prices. It really is a great site.

Oh, and there's a few companies that make plastic practice cymbals, but I got mine from Pintech.

[Speedy VonTrapp]

From the basic feel of things here, it seems like if I'm going to do it, I ought to make my own.

What's everyone's experience with that? I can easily enough put together a PVC type cage/holder. Is there a better way that's still cheap?

I'm still pretty curious about the open/closing of the high hats, too. I can see a kick being triggered easily enough, but I can't picture the switching between hits on the same pad for the open and closed high hats.

[Mind Riot]

Originally Posted by Speedy VonTrapp

From the basic feel of things here, it seems like if I'm going to do it, I ought to make my own.

What's everyone's experience with that? I can easily enough put together a PVC type cage/holder. Is there a better way that's still cheap?

I'm still pretty curious about the open/closing of the high hats, too. I can see a kick being triggered easily enough, but I can't picture the switching between hits on the same pad for the open and closed high hats.

Do you already have an acoustic set? It would probably be easiest and most practical to convert it to electronic instead of building one from scratch. But then again, you will have to modify it somewhat. Not like wreck it, but you will have to switch the heads and drill a few holes.

A simple open/closed hihat switch isn't that complicated I believe, but I haven't personally done it. I wimped out on that one and just bought a Roland hihat controller.

The way an electronic hihat works (greatly simplified) is that the actual hihat pad or whatever you're using is struck and sends voltage to your module which tells the module to make the sound. But there is a second input on the module for a hihat controller, either a simple open/closed type on some of the older ones or a variable type like on the newer stuff. Your controller is plugged into this input and whether the switch is closed or open or what position the controller is in for the variable ones determines what hihat sound the module produces. Open or closed or somewhere in between.

[Leeking]

Just completed my DIY edrums last week...

Bought a demo set practice set,

got some triggers from musical cards...

Use some cookie covers for cymbals....

use an old broken Yamaha DD50 edrum as the trigger-module...

tah-taa... edrums for less than $200!