Designing a studio, need some help.

[patlang12]

I am designing a studio for my school. We are not sure how much money we are going to get. It could be anywhere from $2,000 to $10,000 or more. This is for all the equitment although we already have computers. We think we will be getting a room. If we get a room it will probably be a portable. We will probably need to soundproof it so It does not disturbe the neighboring classes. We would also like to treat it acoustically. I am not sure how much we will be allowed to build, and it is possible that after a little while we will have to move the studio to a different room. If we only get a few thousand dollars we won't have much for sound treatment so take in account for the different budgets. If you have any more questions for me that can help you help me ask away. Thanks a lot!

[deepwater]

Check out the sound control stuff from thos website -

http://www.clearsonic.com/isopac_s.html

[patlang12]

Ok thanks I will! Anybody else?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello patlang12, and welcome to the board. To put it in a nutshell, to "soundproof" a portable trailer type modular room is ALMOST impossible, because it has NO mass. Very thin membranes, especially the floor, which is off the ground. It will act the same as a drumhead. Especially with little budget.
Your BEST line of defense as far as sound transmission is concerned is DISTANCE. Try to get the room as far as possible from other buildings. Sound energy reduces 6 db for every doubling of distance. Other techniques are the use of a "floated" platform for percussion instruments, although it still may not make that much of a difference in this case. Maybe build a booth for vocals and isolation boxes for amps with high SPL. Run your electric bass direct to the board. Using heavy mass gobos will help SOME for horns, if they are high enough, although you will get flanking through the ceiling and possibly the floor.
As far as treatment goes, since the walls are thin membranes, you already will have low frequency treatment. It simply goes through the walls never to return Its when you contain it that you need LOhz treatment. Although, thick batts of RIGID FIBERGLASS panels will help with LO mids. and highs.
I assume, since the budget is small, that this will be a ONE room affair to start. In that case, you definetly need some gobos, and possibly a booth. You will have to monitor tracking in headphones. Also get a real flexible headphone distribution system for the musicians. I also assume you will be using a digital recording system. I'm not real big on digital, but I am aware of certain monitoring problems with some digital systems. Might want to ask in the computer forum for information on that.
As far as doing any construction, the BEST thing you could do with a modular unit, is to order it with an unfinished interior. This means NO drywall.
If you can get it that way, then you will be set to build a staggered metal stud ISO wall between two spaces, which then can become control room and a studio. Frame it for a double glass window and a HEAVY door. Insulate and sheith both faces with 2 layers of drywall. All other walls would need insulation and Resiliant Channel applied to the existing studs. Then 2 layers drywall fastened to the RC. However, there are many many details to address prior to construction, and you really don't know what you are actually going to have yet, so let us know at that time and we will address all of these details. Another issue is electrical. Another is HVAC. Later on those though too. One word of warning though. Should you be given an opportunity to build some sort of alterations, since this is school property, proper permits and planning will be a MUST, as safety is of prime importance here.
As far as design philosophys are concerned, take a look at this and read EVERYTHING . That should keep you occupied for a while.

http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boomf...lsayers.com%2F

fitZ

[patlang12]

Thanks a lot for all of that! I have to go study for the SAT's right now, but I will do some reading later. Yes it will probably be all digital because we are a technology school. We are really not sure how much money we will get. It could be anywhere from $2000 to $10,000 or possiblly even more. Maybe even a lot more! In the $2000 dollar budget we only have about $200-300 dollars for sound treatment, which I know is not enough so we will tell them that we need to do sound treatment right.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

which I know is not enough so we will tell them that we need to do sound treatment right.

As far as treatment in a modular or trailer, $300 will buy a good amound of Rigid fiberglass for one room. Thats good for a start. Let us know what you get as far as space and square footage.
However, when it comes to building isolation, figure 20 times that, just for starters for 2 small rooms.

Good luck.
fitZ

[chris-from-ky]

I'd venture to say that once you do all the acoustic treatment needed, you'll have $0 for gear. And I'd also venture to say that any gear worth your time to do all of this is going to eat up at least another $10k.

What kind of school is it and will audio engineering be taught with this facility? If so, don't expect to learn a lot on that budget. It's just the brutal truth.

[patlang12]

Well we are not sure how mcuh we will get or what we will get in the way of a room. We are a technology school. You can check it out at www.newtechhigh.org We are going to try to get a lot of stuff donated so we really are not sure what our budget will be. Thanks again to everybody.

[mshilarious]

You're in Napa and you want to study music? Heck, just go to UC-Davis and study viticulture or oenology. I tell you, I've never been to NAMM, but I've been to a lot of winemaking conventions, and it's a lot more fun sampling the product there

OK, serious answer: we can't really tell you how to soundproof a hypothetical room. At this point, you can either wait until you know what you are getting, or learn the basics of acoustics so you can do the design yourself . . .

[patlang12]

OK that is what I will do. It may be a few months before we know what we will have in way of a room. If anybody else has any suggestions that would be great, but if not thanks a lot anyway!

[patlang12]

OK everybody, we have a better idea of what is going to happen. We are going to build a room in a prexisting classroom. We have made some preliminary plans. Now I have lots of questions. This room needs to be really soundproofed because there are classrooms bordering the studio. We need to make it very soundproof so we can try to record during school hours. If this is not possible without spending tons of money then I guess we will just record after school. We don't really have a budget yet. I am supposed to get some estimates and then make a preposal. I guess we will also need some sound dampining stuff too. Maybe you guys should tell me what I need to worry about because I don't know too much about this stuff. Thanks a lot!!!
I am going to try to upload a picture in a few minutes

[patlang12]

I am going to try to post a picture of our plans so far.

[mshilarious]

The recording room is fine. The control room is a bit of a disaster--too small, not symmetrical, mix position in a corner. Lemme see if I can draw something else--I think you'll have to borrow some live room space.

OK, if you need two rooms (and it's probably helpful in an educational setting), here's a start. Replace the hinged door between the rooms with a sliding glass door (for more isolation, double that wall & use two doors). Mount the monitors inside the walls. You're limited to a small desk in the control room, and you'll have to have all the rack gear built into the desk (which is nice to have anyway). You'll need lots of absorption in the control room.

[patlang12]

Thanks a lot for drawing that out. I will bring that up with the people we are working on the building. Any links to places where I can find prices for this stuff. What should the walls be made out of? I have lots of questions!! Around how much is this all going to cost. (just the room itself, not th recording gear.)

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

This room needs to be really soundproofed because there are classrooms bordering the studio. We need to make it very soundproof so we can try to record during school hours. If this is not possible without spending tons of money then I guess we will just record after school.

Hello again patlang12. Well I just re read your whole post, and the site for the school. Very interesting. However, there are some things here that need to be clarified before any serious dialog about what and how to soundproof begins. I'll start here.

I am designing a studio for my school.

First off, and I could be wrong, but I don't think you are qualified and I also think you are being niave. Not in the sense that you might think though. Its not studio design that is in question. It is meeting law that is the question here. And I'm not just talking about construction codes.
You see, this is not a residential project. It is an educational institution, and as such there are tons of codes that you MUST comply with by way of submitting a set of plans to the Building Inspection Department. The very first one, is YOU must be a licensed architect to even submit plans for educational facilitys. I can tell you right off the bat, that even a small remodel of a class room has serious implications. Especially in California. I delt personally with a very small 1 room classroom in a commercial building and it was a TOTAL NIGHTMARE to get it through the permit process.
Just to put in a small office with 2 doors and a window, electrical and upgrade the bathroom to meet Title 24, was a lesson in reality checks Here are a few issues to illustrate. This is by no means complete.
Building Type
Occupancy Load
Egress.
HANDICAP(title 24 codes)
Sprinklering Systems/fire retardant fabrics etc.
Electrical Loads/schematics to load centers
Lighting calculations(must meet new energy laws)
HVAC(soundproof is AIRPROOF which is NOT allowed by code ) You CANNOT simply use existing ductwork, as EVERY room must have supply and returns to meet criteria set by code. AND location of registers must be on reflected ceiling plan.
Panic compliance(hardware to eliminate being trapped such as exit lighting, lever latchsets with proper locking schedules, etc,



Add to this various soundproofing mechanical requirements and you will add to the code compliance nightmare...no ifs ands or butts. This is a EDUCATIONAL FACILITY, which means it is an institution. If experience tells me correctly, you cannot submit plans for this project unless signed off by a licensed architect. I would consult with your dean in this regard.

Personally, from my own experience dealing with the Building Inspection Department, this is NOT a fly by the seat of your pants nor planning via a forum situation. I would venture to say, the facility manager or dean will tell you that this must be submitted for approval by the county AND it must be done by licensed architect. However, this is ONLY my .02 and is subject to EXPERT opinion. But maybe you know something I don't.

fitZ

[frederic]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

Hello patlang12, and welcome to the board. To put it in a nutshell, to "soundproof" a portable trailer type modular room is ALMOST impossible, because it has NO mass. Very thin membranes, especially the floor, which is off the ground. It will act the same as a drumhead. Especially with little budget.

Sounds like a job for a welder, and huge pile of 3/4" plate

[patlang12]

You bring up some good points Rick. We want to make intial plans to present to the school board though. Also it is a lot cheaper (so I am told) to come with some initial plans and show them to architect than have one design it for us. We are also going to see if we can find any parents from the school that are architects that would like to help us out. I really do appreciate you pointing out possible problems though, so we can try to deal with them now instead of later. OK here is a new drawing. We had to bring the wall back a little because it goes straigt up to a hallway and has glass walls. Tell me what you think of it. Also the room has a very tall ceiling and we don't really want to build all the way up. We were talking about going 8 feet up. Any suggestions with this?

[patlang12]

What? The picture didn't seem to work. let me try again.

[patlang12]

Still not working? I am not sure what is going on. Do you think it is because it is a bmp file? It was working last time I posted a picture. hmmm.... Let me host it on the internet and see if I can get it to work later. Ok here is the link: http://tinypic.com/2akmpz

[patlang12]

Anybody have opinions on the newest picture? Sorry I can't get it to load in the post. I am not sure what the problem is.

[patlang12]

OK we changed it once again just a little. Hopefully this time it will actually get posted in the thread.

[DDev]

The last one definitely is an improvement in the room size/shape. If you do mix at the location indicated, though, your stereo image will be off balance since it is not centered in that part of the width of the room. It looks to me like you are planning on sliding glass doors between the 2 rooms, correct? If so, it might be better to put the mixing location at the opposite end of the room. This will allow you to be centered without impeding traffic flow in/out of the room.

Looks like a fun project.

Darryl.....

[patlang12]

yes we are planning on putting a sliding glass door in there. I will consider moving the mixing desk. Thank you for your reply. Anybody else have some suggestions?

[chippyd]

Just been looking at the pics and feel that the width of the control room will be a little tight but ok as long as you don't intend to have a lot of student in there all at the same time.

The other thing I can see is that access to the live area could be a problem.

Will you be using the bottom door for access or the sliding door?
If you have to bring amps and drum kits in and out of the control room to get to the live room it could a problem.

[c7sus]

Right on! Keep swinging and thanks for doing this for the kids.