Recording vocals...

[Lee123]

My singers voice is so strong, powerful and in tune when ever we play live, but when it comes to recording in the studio, problems arrise. I turn the volume and bass down in his headphones, we did use a little reverb but now the signal is dry to his headphones.....not sure what else to do.

Are their any tips/tricks you guys use to help a vocalist in a simular situation?
Thanks
Lee.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by Lee123

My singers voice is so strong, powerful and in tune when ever we play live, but when it comes to recording in the studio, problems arrise. I turn the volume and bass down in his headphones, we did use a little reverb but now the signal is dry to his headphones.....not sure what else to do.

Are their any tips/tricks you guys use to help a vocalist in a simular situation?
Thanks
Lee.

I dont really understand the question. Whats wrong with the voices? can you eleaborate.

[Lee123]

Basically the oposite of performing live. Parts will be flat/sharp, phrasing will be off slightly etc. Almost like he is a completely different singer than when performing live.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by Lee123

Basically the oposite of performing live. Parts will be flat/sharp, phrasing will be off slightly etc. Almost like he is a completely different singer than when performing live.

Its alot diffrerent in the studio, he's so use to performing live where he can really express himself on stage and in the studio you have to be somewhat still, the only advice I have is to have him practice, practice, practice

[HangDawg]

Ahhhh, just autotune the crap outta him and be done with it.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

Ahhhh, just autotune the crap outta him and be done with it.

FLMAO.........

[reshp1]

Try having him only wear one cup of the headphones (you'll have to mute the other one or you'll get feed back). If that doesn't work, just have him listen on the monitors and sing along w/o headphones, sure you'll get some bleed but it's better than a bad performance.

[smtcharlie]

Yeah, this is tough. And not just tough with singers, recording is a whole different ballgame than playing live or practicing.

If this singer sounds best live, see if you can re-create that. Pump the music through speakers and have him record with a dynamic mic. You'll almost definitely get the background music as well (and this will lessen the quality or what you can do with the mix later), but if that's the best way to get a strong performance, there's no harm in seeing how it sounds.....

My favorite recordings over the years are the best performances, not the best quality of sound (in fact, the best quality is rarely the best performance...this is a great selling point of going to a "real" studio rather than recording yourself).

charlie

[spinynorman]

I have found that problem with more than 1 singer in the past.Its hard to recreate the vibe of stage performance as there is none of the live adrenalin rush in the studio.
Something I have tried in the past is to have a small audience(1 0r 2 people),usually the bands girlfriends etc,this gives them some one to perform to.It can,however, backfire on you as it can provoke certain types of muso's to start grandstanding and showing off which can be problematic in the studio.

Hope this helps

[Dogman]

If the one headphone on thing works, that would probably be the best bet. If that doesn't, can you turn his voice off in the headphone mix? If so, maybe try that, then adjust the volume of the music to where the voice he hears himself singing with and the music he listens to sound similar to how he hears this in a live performance. He might be listening too much to his own voice in the phones, and trying to adjust that too much, when live he sings to the music, and only hears his own voice, not the voice coming out of the monitors, so sings more with the music. Just a thought.

Hope this makes sense, and if not, sorry.
Ed

[retromal]

I agree with Dogman on this one, what does the singer listen to live.... and try to recreate that in his headphones, or have you a live recording you could use...... (last resort but you never know). When I record in the studio I do like to hear the rest of the band and me, but the mix is critical, but it works for me...
Hope this helps

Mal

[mcolling]

Probably just nerves or something. A simple solution: get him drunk.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by mcolling

Probably just nerves or something. A simple solution: get him drunk.

Now that's a man after my own heart!!!

[con_ritmo]

the bottom line is that he's in an environment that he isn't used to.

it could be that he can't hear himself and/or hear the parts correctly either.

i only use one can when i'm recording...i need to have one ear open hearing myself naturally.

if you want to use speakers instead of earphones, a trick i've read, but never tried...is to flip the phase of one of the speakers. then as long as the speakers are equidistant from the microphone, they'll cancel themselves out at the microphone.

[whyseye]

Originally Posted by Dogman

If the one headphone on thing works, that would probably be the best bet. If that doesn't, can you turn his voice off in the headphone mix? .... He might be listening too much to his own voice in the phones, and trying to adjust that too much, ... Just a thought.

Hope this makes sense, and if not, sorry.
Ed

Makes total sense to me. I think it's also a personal space / proximity kind of thing. When you're used to hearing yourself in the context of (and proximity to) speakers, there's a certain sense of distance. When you suddenly hear yourself right inside your ears before you even feel like you've gotten the sound out of your mouth, it can be disconcerting.
....or maybe that's me....

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by whyseye

Makes total sense to me. I think it's also a personal space / proximity kind of thing. When you're used to hearing yourself in the context of (and proximity to) speakers, there's a certain sense of distance. When you suddenly hear yourself right inside your ears before you even feel like you've gotten the sound out of your mouth, it can be disconcerting.
....or maybe that's me....

Yeah. I've just noticed that if I can hear myself too much, that is what I listen too, and can get off track a bit, or if I feel I am getting a bit loud/quiet, I change way too much to compensate. Of course, with my voice it doesn't really matter, but if this guy can sing well, he will want the best performance possible.

[ericburnley]

i was in a band that experienced this somewhat. we had a vocalist whose intonation in live performances at the time of playing sounded dead on. however, upon reviewing recordings of the same live performances, we realized she was WAY off in several parts. i'm not saying your ears are bad or anything, but it's possible that (unless you're comaring studio recordings to actual live recordings) your perception of intonation in a live setting is not as focused as it might be when listening in a studio setting. especially if you're part of the group performing live.
just a different perception i thought i'd throw out.

as far as his phrasing goes, i'd agree with what others said here- the live setting is hard to recreate, and the ideas mentioned here are definitely possibilities to try.
good luck.

[mrface2112]

ericburnley stated what i was gonna ask......"are you SURE he's ON when you're performing live?"

it's VERY difficult to make judgements about pitch when you're cranking 1000W in a club. especially when you're on the monitors/performing side of things. i always thought i sang fine when we played live.....that is.....until we started recording ourselves and i heard firsthand just how bad i sucked.

the "problem" could be that he's prolly hearing himself TOO well and isn't used to hearing how out of tune he actually is and it's a shock....and now maybe he has confidence problems. if you can't sing in tune when you can actually hear yourself, there's no way you can sing in tune when you can't hear yourself.....and that's a VERY discouraging thing.

like others have said, it really comes down to practice (practice, practice!) and being comfortable in the studio. it's a bit disconcerting to hear your voice so clearly the first few times you record. and for the record, i STILL suck.


...and when all else fails, ottotoon!


cheers,
wade

[Dogman]

Singing is such a personal thing. If you screw up on a guitar, you curse and do it over. For some reason, when the voice doesn't work properly, you get embarassed, and feel bad. Then you put tons of pressure on yourself to do it right next time...Not a good thing. Very tough. Some people want a crowd, I don't want anyone around.

mrface2112, if I only sucked, I'd feel good. That would be a huge improvement for me.

[Lee123]

Thanks for your input guys.
We played a gig Saturday just gone, and the vocals sounded fine on the recording a friend made (camcorder...man I hate looking at myself play.....), but in the studio, the singer is a different beast altogether. Might be a confidence thing.....practice, practice...oh and practice does sound like a way to move forward. I will try the one can on one can off method to see if that helps.
Lee.

[deepwater]

Just go to a gig and record them live. Some of the greatest ablums have been live recordings. There's a whole world out side of the studeo to record.

[mrface2112]

dogman, i SO hear that. i'm cutting myself some slack when i say i only "suck".....

i thought your analysis about a vocal take vs a guitar take is spot on. i think, though, that a large part of it (the pressure) is that vocals are what *sells* the song. if there's something that's UBER critically important that they shine, it's vocals. you can "hide" a crappy musician if you have to.....but if the lead vocals suck (or these days, unless they're 100% perfect), you can forget about it.

in this case, i'd either record the band live, or i'd do my best to make the guy as "at home" in the studio as possible. the studio can be considerably intimidating, what with the headphones and everything. maybe put the singer in the "live room", give him a handheld dynamic and hang a PA system and record his vocals with the PA instead of headphones. sure there'll be plenty of bleed, but sometimes it's "whatever it takes".


cheers,
wade

[p13]

Some things I've tried that have helped this situation.
1. Use only 1 can
2. Reduce the volume as much as possible in that can
3. Cut the bass content going to the can
4. Make sure the singer doesn't use a lyric sheet: they gotta know the song
5. Place the mic above their mouth: they tend to sing better looking up
6. Put a cool picture on the wall in front of them: something that makes them more comfortable

[firetech]

p13 made great suggestions. However, as a vocalist I can tell you that it's really hard to sing well if you can't hear yourself. Hell, at home in my bedroom at my little shitty $200 studio setup... if I can't hear myself singing loud and clear it comes out really crappy. Flat, sharp, quiet, loud, shaky, whatever. So it's not even necessarily feeling uncomfortable. Definitely just get it so that he can hear himself really well. I use a virtual metronome playing a bit louder than the music itself so I stay right on beat and I use only one can definitely. And actually, the other big thing is that you *DON'T* want to be able to hear youself over the monitor. Get your settings right and just cut his track from the monitor so all he's got is that music and his pure, natural voice.

'course it never hurts to make him feel extra comfy. Give him a big hug and get him to keep his eyes closed and pretend he's on stage or in a big ball of light or whatever the hell makes him feel all fuzzy and nice inside, right?

[SpotlightKid83]

Have a look at this page

http://www.robrock.com/vocal-tips/index.html