My Deliema

[enferno]

Well, first off, allow me to identify the problem.

Today was my first paid session for recording a band in my living room. Due to this being my first time, I did not want to state a price for my services off the bat, due mostly to my doubts as an engineer, my limited equipment, and this being my first time. I did not want to start my recording career off with a bad reputation but setting too high of a price first off if the mix turned out soundling like ass. So I told the band that we shal determine a fair price after i had them the final product. Meaning that they should pay me depending on how good it sounds. The band members are rather good friends of mine, I've known all of them since freshman year of highschool (I am now a juior), and I was fairly confident that they wouldn't under pay me (due both to the fact that i trust them, and their fairly boistress comments made, during recording, of how excellent it sounds thus far (speaking completly nonegotistically. I think it's only soso mix)). I believe that, by them choosing the price, it is a fairly safe way to build a safe, first-time repuation in my neighborhood. There is a rather large potential in recording bands, due to the fact that many of my neighbors have bands, and most of them go to my school and, as you all well know, word of mouth during high-school is the best transfer of information, both positive and negative. However, I feel that I cannot, for more than the first time, have the client determine a fair price (of corse I have my minimum) because this would most certianly result in problems later on (i.e. One band paying x ammount for 2 songs, and another client finding out later that someone else paid less for the same product). I do not believe that I can charge for my services per son, becasue there is the posibility of someone completly milking me by recording 1 song and completly perfecting it and making it drag out over the corse of days. That would be unacceptable, and really now way to charge a fair price that way. Then again, I do not feel comfortable charing an hourly rate because what if they wish to just bang out a few demo tracks really quick and I am taking too damn long for them? Or what if they are perfectionists and want to spend many hours tracking and mixing, but then are steered away because my rates are too high for such long periods?

This is a rather brick-wall obstical for me to run into, and I don't want it to end here. Even if I can just come to some temporary conclusion for pricing until I get my shit worked out so I have a system down and then can charge an hourly rate because I will be able to work quickly and as efficiently as possible, but that isn't exactly an acheiveable goal without expierence.

What do you guys, that do, charge? I have a good ammount of money invested into my equipment, and I have a fair ammount of Knowledge. I have an internship at the biggest and most professional studio in Sacramento. HOw the hell should I charge for my services?

[4-Man Takedown]

I just charge $10 an hour. I have limited gear and experience compared to pro's , but I think I can make half decent recordings decently quick, so it seems like a fair price to me. The bands I have recorded all have been very happy about the quality and price. Although I live in a kind of burnout town with not the greatest economy, and I'm not looking to get a lot of money, I'm mainly trying to get experience. I try to be upfront about everything, I tell them if they want a pro go to a pro, but many bands around here litterally can't shell out more than $200 for a demo and that's where I come in.

I thought for a while about how I was gonna charge and I thought this was the best way to go. They can take their time and spend an entire day recording for only $80. That's not a lot for them collectively, and half a months rent for me.

This is just me, but I would recomend an hourly rate.

[mcolling]

wow! holy cheap rent!

i think hourly seems fair. as for the "see how it turns out," that seems like a bad idea. surely you must have discussed some ballpark number or something.

alternatively, i was on harvey gerst's site today, and he charges a $350 flat rate for each song- mixing, recording, master copies etc included. that also seems like a reasonable approach (if an unreasonable price for you to charge!! )

[Strave]

I charge by the project. Check your bands first and make sure they are good. Be selective with who you work with. You don't want a crappy sounding band making your recordings sounding crappy. Of course this is hard because if every other band was good, there would be no such thing as good. I started my first "real" project about 3 months ago and charged $1000 for 6 songs. Before that I charged my band $800 for 3 songs and all songs after that. However, I feel my quality and ability exceeds that payment so my next project will be more around 1500 or 2000 hopefully. I think this is really the best way to do it. Say hey... I'll make your recording the best I can possibly make it... you know some violin players? get em in here... we'll orchestrate it... pianos? whatever you want. You do your best to make their recording sound amazing. If you make sure they are good ahead of time they won't suck the time out of you by sucking... and by taking the time to get some good songs down you'll produce good recordings you can use to get more business. It gives you time to practice and have fun without everyone worrying about money. Especially starting out... charge by the project.

In addition, I just read what Harvey charges. By reputation alone, I think he is underpaid. But maybe that doesn't include production? In any event, aim high and negotiate lower if you need to. Your ability will dictate your income.

[chessrock]

Track and mix them for free.

Log how many hours you put in.

Once the finished product is done, let them hear it; at your place (don't let them take it home).

Tell them if they like it, then they can have it if they pay you $X / hour for the time you worked on it.

If they don't want it, then it's probably a sign that you need to start brushing up on your recording chops. Or that you need to start tracking better and more gracious/generous bands.

[Carter]

I charge $20.00 per hour, I feel that this is the best solution for me beacuse by the project the band can waste more time than needed, by the hour they will get it done!

[NYMorningstar]

Personally, mixing friends or family and business is a no no. I don't think you should charge them at all. Sounds like your learning as you go along here and if you learn the music as well as your spelling and grammar then you have a ways to go. You're going to look much better if you come out with a good product and do it for free. You invest nothing but your time as do your friends and it's a win win situation.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

if you learn the music as well as your spelling and grammar then you have a ways to go.

Ouch! We bit harsh.

[Cloneboy Studio]

The first project I did was a young band that didn't have any money but were a great band. I did their entire first album for free using rented equipment, my home recording gear, stuff I borrowed from friends and so forth. It turned out pretty good.

After that I began charging by the project. Not a good idea. Bands will take advantage of that.

All that was 3 years ago.

Now I'm charging 50/hour and working on a ProTools HD rig.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

Ouch! We bit harsh.

I second that OUCH

[cellardweller]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

The first project I did was a young band that didn't have any money but were a great band. I did their entire first album for free using rented equipment, my home recording gear, stuff I borrowed from friends and so forth. It turned out pretty good.

After that I began charging by the project. Not a good idea. Bands will take advantage of that.

All that was 3 years ago.

Now I'm charging 50/hour and working on a ProTools HD rig.

Only three years ago? I'd have assumed you'd been at it longer, judging from your signature!

So basically, your first project landed you in the hole, or was the band covering the charges for the rented equipment?

[Massive Master]

"By the tune" and "by the project" rates can be a decent thing, but you really have to specifiy some sort of limit on what is "reasonable" for a tune or project...

You don't want the band in there coming up with new parts and harmonies when you're charging by the tune...

[Carter]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

You don't want the band in there coming up with new parts and harmonies when you're charging by the tune...

That is sooooo right on the money!

[mcolling]

Originally Posted by Strave

In addition, I just read what Harvey charges. By reputation alone, I think he is underpaid. But maybe that doesn't include production? In any event, aim high and negotiate lower if you need to. Your ability will dictate your income.

Actually, this rate is for Harvey's studio, not for Harvey. I think his son engineers the sessions.

[Carter]

Originally Posted by mcolling

wow! holy cheap rent!

That wont even cover my direct tv

[TamaSabian]

How do you know you can charge for your work??. It´s something about I have invested $$$ I want my money back??. If this the case, what about people who has cheap gear, drums and hand percussion as instruments and need to borrow amps, guitars stuff like that ???

[Flamin Lip]

"We'll pay later" sounds like ya did a freebie. BUT............thats OK if youre just breakin into it all.

I would rather be in charge, w/ my own gear, and doing it for free in order to get a credit to my name, rather than schlepping coffee for ego maniacs, doing all the work, getting no credit, and not getting paid as an intern. But its always good to know that if ya cant do it yourself, the latter method of breaking in, is still there for ya!

[Rokket]

You gotta do some pro bono work to get your name out. Charging right away will limit the number of prospective clients. But limit the number of recordings you do for free.
After you establish a rep, then take the advice given on what you should charge.

[LRosario]

The funny thing is that this sort of thing comes from experience. You eventually learn that your friends are like your family, they won't be your most critical customers.

When you can start pleasing people you have no connection with, then your job becomes interesting and rewarding.


my advice:


Never state your weak points. Always go into a session in command and in charge. Your clients will perform better if they know they can trust you. If they sense an amature vibe, then you've started to dig your grave. It should be a routine, like brushing your teeth. But I don't mean to scare you.

Instinct plays a big part, so if you feel you're not able to accomplish something, then it probably means you should practice a little more until you feel you can take on the task. However, sometimes you have to bullshit a project in hopes it will advance your career. What's life without some risk, right?

Everyone has to start from the bottom, so what you feel is very normal. I remember my first recordings where probably my most ego distroying ones. But after a while, you pick up from some of the best in the field and you build that confidence.

Besides, if someone can't pull through on a small project, no one will ever expect them to pull through in a multi-million dollar facility with rec execs, investors and managment breathing down your throat.

The going rate for a good engineer could be anywhere starting from 60 dollars an hour and above. You might have a paid contract through a record label or just a contract with the local studio you work for.

For a full album, I sometimes walk away with a good chunk of change.

It's definitly something you have to be humble about. Never giving away too much, but helping others when they need it.

Always plan to save some of your earnings to put back into your equipment. This way you build up an equipment list specific to you, versus using studio or rented equipment.

It takes time, but if you set yourself to win, you'll be a winner.

Good luck

[enferno]

well, i collected today after showing them the final product. THey gave me $110! I think I have decided that about $10/hour should be a fair price from now on.