ART EQ....where to set in chain?

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Mmkay....I just got my brand new ART 31 band EQ yesterday. I hooked it up, with my sonic maximizer and seemed to be having some troubles, so I ran just the EQ ro made sure it worked properly. I notice the EQ creates a noticable amount of hiss. I have a BOSS noise surpressor pedal that I run my guitar into, then to my amp.

should I run the gate at the end of the chain, so it kills the hiss?

also - should I run the EQ before or after the sonic maximizer?

[krimson]

If I were you I just wouldn't use it at all.

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by krimson

If I were you I just wouldn't use it at all.

well I got it yesterday and I'm going to be using it.
.

[Big Kenny]

I'm afraid it's just a noisy unit, man. To introduce another piece of gear will add connections and maybe more noise, especially a pedal gate.

[SonicAlbert]

I agree with krimson, don't use it at all. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you have to use it. I mean, we all make mistakes.

Graphic eq's are something that should be used with the house PA system to equalize the room and/or speaker response. All you've done by putting it in your chain is created a lot of problems for yourself.

Also, the sonic maximizer will tend to bring out hiss and emphasize high end, so putting those two units in a row might be part of your problem, depending on your eq settings.

Better off not to use it, or if you must have eq to use a parametric eq, not a graphic. I personally suggest returning it and getting your money back, if you bought it new from a dealer.

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by Big Kenny

I'm afraid it's just a noisy unit, man. To introduce another piece of gear will add connections and maybe more noise, especially a pedal gate.

well I'm not too worried about the pedal gate, that has been doing a fine job. For some reason I think I tried running it thru the FX loop before, and it didnt work.

I've had my eyes on one of them Rocktron HUSH units....they are supposedly very badass.

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

I agree with krimson, don't use it at all. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you have to use it. I mean, we all make mistakes.

Graphic eq's are something that should be used with the house PA system to equalize the room and/or speaker response. All you've done by putting it in your chain is created a lot of problems for yourself.

Also, the sonic maximizer will tend to bring out hiss and emphasize high end, so putting those two units in a row might be part of your problem, depending on your eq settings.

Better off not to use it, or if you must have eq to use a parametric eq, not a graphic. I personally suggest returning it and getting your money back, if you bought it new from a dealer.

I bought it brand bew from Ebay for $90 with shipping.

I'll take your advice, but I will probably end up keeping it. It will come in handy one day.

[SonicAlbert]

If you ever need to set up a PA or eq speakers on a live gig your graphic eq could come in handy. However, for eqing a single instrument like your guitar I think you'll be a lot happier with a parametric eq.

There are some lower priced offerings out there, especially if you are comfortable with eBay. You might want to look into the Aphex 109, which shows up on eBay fairly often. It usually goes for around $125-150.

ART also used to make a tube parametric eq that came in single channel and two channel models. Those show up on eBay every once in a while, but are no longer available new.

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by SonicAlbert

If you ever need to set up a PA or eq speakers on a live gig your graphic eq could come in handy. however, for eqing a single instrument like your guitar I think you'll be a lot happier with a parametric eq.

There are some lower priced offerings out there, especially if you are comfortable with eBay. You might want to look into the Aphex 109, which shows up on eBay fairly often. It usually goes for around $125-150.

I have practice today, so I'll play around with the EQ. I allready have a pretty decent sound, even though I'm using a shitty Peavy SUPREME head instead of my Mesa Boogie Mark IV.
I just thought an EQ, tuner, sonic maximizer and compressor/limiter would be all that I need.....

I probably dont need the EQ for my Boogie, since it has a 5 band eq built in which does the job fine. shit....maybe I'll re-sell it.

[krimson]

Originally Posted by CrazyMetalBeer

well I got it yesterday and I'm going to be using it.
.

I have no problem with you using it because you bought it. It's completely up to you. But if you want to degrade your signal........have fun

[MOFO Pro]

I posted before with my thoughts about graphic EQs for shaping sound... generally don't like them at all... like many replies above state... graphic EQs should be used at live venues to flatten out the room, not an individual channel... (Arts own documentation on this unit states that one of it's primary uses is for "fixing Problems")

But I'm a bit surprised that you're getting so much hiss off of the Art... I noticed that you mention that you hook the EQ up alone... I believe the EQ requires a balance line level input... not an instrument level... this could be the cause of your noise... you don't have enough signal at the input... that is if you aren't using the effects loop...

Most instances of hiss or noise are due to inconsistencies in your gain staging... it sounds like you may be boucing between line and instrument levels in the signal chain... and that's the source of your problem

[CrazyMetalBeer]

well, I had practice yesterday and I messed around with my setup a bit.

The noise isnt so bad after all, and the EQ definitely makes my toner badder-ass.

Thanks for the help, all. I think I'll be keeping this unit after all.

[Farview]

Your tone would be even badder-ass if you would stop spending money trying to make an amp that you don't like the sound of, sound different. If you would just be patient enough, you could save the money that you will spend on BBE's, EQ's, distortions pedals, gates, hushes, and other band-aids for bad sound, and just buy an amp that sounds good. I'll bet you have at least $500 worth of equipment that you bought because you don't like the sound of your amp. You could have been half way towards a used Mesa (or what ever)

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by Farview

Your tone would be even badder-ass if you would stop spending money trying to make an amp that you don't like the sound of, sound different. If you would just be patient enough, you could save the money that you will spend on BBE's, EQ's, distortions pedals, gates, hushes, and other band-aids for bad sound, and just buy an amp that sounds good. I'll bet you have at least $500 worth of equipment that you bought because you don't like the sound of your amp. You could have been half way towards a used Mesa (or what ever)

bro....I have a Mesa. I LOVE my sound. why not try to make it just a bit better? Money isnt really an issue right now.....plus, I have over $2,000 in my rig, man, and I'm proud of it.

I can get an awesome tone from my Mesa Mark IV. It KILLS. But I've heard lots about sonic maximizers, so i got one, and tried it and I frikken love it. My other guitarist has one and we have the bass hooked up, as well , and it sounds amazingly clearer and better.

I figure, why not try to make an awesome tone sound better?

[MISTERQCUE]

I purchased an ART 341 eq 'bout 3 years ago and have used it exactly 4 times.
I am now selling this unit!

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by MISTERQCUE

I purchased an ART 341 eq 'bout 3 years ago and have used it exactly 4 times.
I am now selling this unit!

damn...I got the 351. I've owned it for about a week now and I've used it more than 4 times. I like it. I don't really need it, but it comes in handy.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by CrazyMetalBeer

bro....I have a Mesa. I LOVE my sound. why not try to make it just a bit better? Money isnt really an issue right now.....plus, I have over $2,000 in my rig, man, and I'm proud of it.

I can get an awesome tone from my Mesa Mark IV. It KILLS. But I've heard lots about sonic maximizers, so i got one, and tried it and I frikken love it. My other guitarist has one and we have the bass hooked up, as well , and it sounds amazingly clearer and better.

I figure, why not try to make an awesome tone sound better?

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are looking for an undefined 'better'. I run into this a lot. You love your tone but want it to be 'better', so without defining what 'better' is, you go get equipment and chain it up. Now you think you have fixed a problem you didn't know you had with some magic box that somehow takes away all the previously unpercieved 'for shit-ness' away from the sound that you loved (before you spent more money on something new and shiney)

One of these days, you will, for what ever reason, plug the guitar right into the amp, and the amp into the cabinet, without anything else in the way. You will marvel at the punch and growl of the sound you get that way. The rest of the rack you are so proud of will end up on Ebay.

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by Farview

One of these days, you will, for what ever reason, plug the guitar right into the amp, and the amp into the cabinet, without anything else in the way. You will marvel at the punch and growl of the sound you get that way. The rest of the rack you are so proud of will end up on Ebay.

nah. I loved the sound of my amp before I got any units for it, and now I love it even more.

man, why are you all so negative towards this topic?

want me to bring my shit home and record the differences for you and let you decide?

[Farview]

I have been blessed with (or cursed by) a carrer full of guitar heroes. These guys are famous for adding equipment to their rig and thinking it is better just because it is more.
I am working with someone right now who I am helping design a rig. We haven't put it together yet, but he keeps calling me up worried about how his Furman PQ4 will fit into the rig. I told him that if we do this right, he wouldn't need it. He keeps saying that he thinks it will make the rig better. Better than what! We haven't gotten it put together yet, we haven't plugged into it, we don't know what it sounds like. How can you decide that an EQ will be the answer for something we haven't heard yet. This is not the first guy to do this to me, and it won't be the last. It took me 6 months to get his BBE away from him a couple of years ago. He had the damn thing cranked up to 8!!! Exciters are addictive, it isn't so much that things sound better with them turned on, it's that when you turn them off everything sounds more dull than it is. The contrast is dramatic, but it is an illusion. Your ears get numb to these things very quickly and makes things sound dull and lifeless without it.

Rack gear that are not effects (delay, reverb, flange, wah, etc..) are just band-aids for a sound that wasn't working in the first place. They don't fix the problem, they just make it more processed sounding. The more you process the sound, the more flat and one dimensional it gets. It is very easy to paint yourself into a corner.

I have never heard your sound, it might be great. The way you asked the question reminded me of the questions I get asked buy the types of guys I eluded to above. So naturally I lumped you in with these guys. Most of them have gold records under thier belts, so it isn't bad company.

[gusfmm]

CrazyMetal,

I perhaps have a similar rig and SITUATION as you, I use Mesa (Triaxis, 20/20, 3/4 cab), and some other stuff including a 482. I still am of the same opinion as you with respect to the BBE, since I mostly do studio playing and recording. And IMHO, my rig sounds just great the way it is now.

However, I was involved in a similar discussion (even quite a bit more heated up) about sonic maximizers in a thread a few weeks ago. The only really reasonable and with perhaps practical foundations comment made came from Fairview. I'd recommend you listen to what he's saying and just give it a try whenever you get a chance. Set a couple of hours just to fiddle with your gear and try switching off the BBE. Also, play with the EQ in your pre-amp (as much as you can) and your power amp (if it's got it). Try to find out more about parametric EQs as I WOULD GREATLY RECOMMEND ONE to shape and fine tune your pre-amp's sound. See what happens. Although I still use the BBE and haven't had the chance to try my sound w/o it at high volumes (which is what I think might make any difference), I'm decided to do so after Fairview's comments. It may be right for you or me, it might not.

However, I've spent great amount of time playing with my multiFX 5-band parametric EQ and it's done an amazing difference. I'd never realized it would be so important. I also had an ART 351 (still do, but use it marginally, right before the amp just in case of unwanted feedback or anything) but realized it could have never given me the results I'm achieving with the parametric. Because what happens is that you "comb" the sound on those specific frequencies but you still leave in many other you might be trying to somehow modify. That's why a graphic EQ won't help you (much) at all. Hope this helps.

Summarizing, I think your sound from the pre-amp is the most important part of your set-up.... besides your playing as someone else well said before

[CrazyMetalBeer]

Originally Posted by gusfmm

CrazyMetal,

I perhaps have a similar rig and SITUATION as you, I use Mesa (Triaxis, 20/20, 3/4 cab), and some other stuff including a 482. I still am of the same opinion as you with respect to the BBE, since I mostly do studio playing and recording. And IMHO, my rig sounds just great the way it is now.

However, I was involved in a similar discussion (even quite a bit more heated up) about sonic maximizers in a thread a few weeks ago. The only really reasonable and with perhaps practical foundations comment made came from Fairview. I'd recommend you listen to what he's saying and just give it a try whenever you get a chance. Set a couple of hours just to fiddle with your gear and try switching off the BBE. Also, play with the EQ in your pre-amp (as much as you can) and your power amp (if it's got it). Try to find out more about parametric EQs as I WOULD GREATLY RECOMMEND ONE to shape and fine tune your pre-amp's sound. See what happens. Although I still use the BBE and haven't had the chance to try my sound w/o it at high volumes (which is what I think might make any difference), I'm decided to do so after Fairview's comments. It may be right for you or me, it might not.

However, I've spent great amount of time playing with my multiFX 5-band parametric EQ and it's done an amazing difference. I'd never realized it would be so important. I also had an ART 351 (still do, but use it marginally, right before the amp just in case of unwanted feedback or anything) but realized it could have never given me the results I'm achieving with the parametric. Because what happens is that you "comb" the sound on those specific frequencies but you still leave in many other you might be trying to somehow modify. That's why a graphic EQ won't help you (much) at all. Hope this helps.

Summarizing, I think your sound from the pre-amp is the most important part of your set-up.... besides your playing as someone else well said before

thanks. that was helpfull.

I have messed with my settings a lot. I hear what you are saying about how the BBE is a band aid, and when its turned off, the sound sounds duller than it is. I just prefer the bite of the processed tone. Unprocessed gives me more raunch and more of a mid-gain, which I love and will use in certain parts of songs my band has, and the BBE will also come into play.