Prepairing for a recording project (need advice)

[SpotlightKid83]

Now my band has decided that we will record the album ourselves (notice I say recording, not mixing, we will actually have a professional engineer mixing it and then send it to a mastering house), basicaly we will do all the tracking parts, and so far I am the only band member who has a clue about recording after a couple of years doing it for myself at home. I have to come up with things that we have to buy (to resell or return after use because of our budget) and I came up with this:

Cubase SX
Delta 1010

Drums:
OH: 2 Rode NT1
snare: SM57
bass drum: AKG D112
(I may add SM58's as 2 tom mics in between the 4 toms)

Bass:
Direct from the Trace Elliot head output and at the same time miked with the D112 on a different track.

Guitars
(electric)
POD 2.0 direct and cabinet miked same way as bass guitar but with the SM57
(acustic)
Rode NT1

Keys
Triton studio direct

Vocals
Rode NT1

Now my questions are,

-what do you think about the mic selection (keep in mind is a limited budget)?
-should I use a mic pre on every miked track (I'd need three 2-channel pres for the drums only)?
-should I tun off the effects section on the Triton to record everything as dry as possible?

I will gladly appreciate some advice

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

-what do you think about the mic selection (keep in mind is a limited budget)?

It's passable. You can do something decent with it.

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

-should I use a mic pre on every miked track (I'd need three 2-channel pres for the drums only)?

Why not rent a Soundcraft Ghost while cutting drums?

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

-should I tun off the effects section on the Triton to record everything as dry as possible?

Yes. Whoever has to mix it will thank you.

Also--I'd toss out that POD track on the guitar and instead put a SM57 up close and an NT1 distant. A well mic'd halfway decent amp beats a POD almost any day of the week.

[Bulls Hit]

If budget is a problem have a look at the 1010LT which is about $220 cheaper than the 1010. Unbalanced inputs but you still get 8 analog ins. Put the money towards a decent mixer

[SpotlightKid83]

Thanks for your advice

Originally posted by Bulls Hit
If budget is a problem have a look at the 1010LT

I have the 1010 already that I use for myself, and we have the SM57 and 58's. We would be buying the two NT1's and the D112

Originally posted by Cloneboy Studio
Also--I'd toss out that POD track on the guitar and instead put a SM57 up close and an NT1 distant. A well mic'd halfway decent amp beats a POD almost any day of the week.

The reason I was thinking about doing it this way is because of the mic placement, so if the mixing engineer thinks the miked track sounds bad by itself it can blend it with the POD track to get something better, but I can always record with the POD and both SM57 and NT1 miking at the same time (I would be using an all-tube Fender Dual Reverb from the 70's through an Ampeg 4x12 guitar cabinet).

Originally posted by Cloneboy Studio
Why not rent a Soundcraft Ghost while cutting drums?

I'll have to look where can I rent it, but I would still need the mic pres to record everything else, right? do you know how much can it cost by hour/day/week?

Now another question that hit me is, I was thinking of not using ANYTHING between the mic and the computer, besides the mic pres. I mean recording everything with flat EQ and no compression, 'cause I don't want to screw anything "on the way in" and leave all that to the mixing stage.
Would that be the best thing to do?

[Bulls Hit]

Yeah record everything flat.
Use 24 bit & leave yourself headroom, you won't need to compress on the way in

[SpotlightKid83]

What do you refer to as "headroom"?

[LRosario]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

-what do you think about the mic selection (keep in mind is a limited budget)?
-should I use a mic pre on every miked track (I'd need three 2-channel pres for the drums only)?
-should I tun off the effects section on the Triton to record everything as dry as possible?

I will gladly appreciate some advice

Alright, here we go:


A) Your mic selection will get a basic sound, but toss the idea of using SM58s as tom mics. I'd avoid omni-directional mics for drums altogether.


B) about mic pre's: they are nessesary regardless. To get any mic signal up to line level, you need a pre amp. The difference is that the better they get, the better your sound gets. They are one of the most important part of any step in the signal flow chain.

Pre's are usually built into mixing boards, so the work is done for you. You wouldn't need a pre amp. But if you depend on recording as a source of income in a professional world, mic pre's integrated into the board are unacceptable...unless you're dealing with an extremely high end board.



C) this one is a tricky one. The standard reply is "as dry as possible", which is cool.

However, I personally tend to capture the performance as is, simply to keep the artist familiar with thier own sound. For example, I could always record a guitar dry and then add reverb, but it would never sound as individual as the amp it came from. Unless the client demands it or I feel the need to do otherwise, I capture the performance with FX and all.

Keep in mind that if you do that, it's commited to tape forever, so you can never filter it out. In your case, I'd track it dry.

[LRosario]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

What do you refer to as "headroom"?

Headroom: The upper yellow half of your level just before it clips.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

I'll have to look where can I rent it, but I would still need the mic pres to record everything else, right? do you know how much can it cost by hour/day/week?

Dude, the preamps are ON THE MIXER!

I have no idea how much it will cost. Probably 75 bucks a day... but that is a guess. You'd have to call sound reinforcement rental stores.

[SpotlightKid83]

Originally posted by LRosario
However, I personally tend to capture the performance as is, simply to keep the artist familiar with thier own sound.

In this case, I'm the guitar player so it will be easier to agree with the recording engineer, who is me also... LOL

Originally posted by Cloneboy Studio
Dude, the preamps are ON THE MIXER!

I know, I'm not THAT new on this, but you said to rent the mixer while cutting drums, I meant that if we return the mixer after cutting the drums I'd still need a preamp to record everything else... my mixer is a Behringer and I heard pretty bad things about its preamps on this site.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Buy an Aphex 207. Those aren't terrible preamps.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

Also--I'd toss out that POD track on the guitar and instead put a SM57 up close and an NT1 distant. A well mic'd halfway decent amp beats a POD almost any day of the week.

A agree with this. I mix lots of records for other people and if you sent me the tracks the real weak link would be using a pod for the guitars

[LRosario]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

In this case, I'm the guitar player so it will be easier to agree with the recording engineer, who is me also... LOL

Gotta love those self produced projects


One side note about the Ghost Console, since i've noticed it's been mentioned:



The ghost console is fairly difficult to use if you're not familar with some basic signal flow. So if you do decide to rent it, definitly read up on the features. Don't rent it only to find out, "aww shit, what the hell did I do? I just shelled out some cash for this thing and now I don't even know where to begin".

[Armistice]

Dude

If you know nothing about this then you would get a better result if you paid a recording engineer to RECORD you and did the mixing yourself than they way you're planning it.

If you hand over craply recorded tracks to someone there's only so much he/she can do to "fix it in the mix", but if a recording engineer records the tracks properly for you then hands it back, then you probably can't do too much to hurt it.

If you're serious about recording an album, ie. something to release and sell, then this is not the time to learn about recording. A demo, perhaps.

If you continue on your chosen path, manage your band buddies' expectations - it's unlikely you're going to come up with a real quality product.

Hate to be the bad news bear, but.... that's the way it is.

Luck!

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by SpotlightKid83

Cubase SX
Delta 1010

That's fine.

Drums:
OH: 2 Rode NT1
snare: SM57
bass drum: AKG D112
(I may add SM58's as 2 tom mics in between the 4 toms)

Ditch the NT-1 and pick up some Oktava MC-012's instead. Or rent some SM-81's. Most respectable rental houses will have some of those.

Bass:
Direct from the Trace Elliot head output and at the same time miked with the D112 on a different track.

Sounds fine. Use new strings, and don't add a lot of funky stuff on the amp. Just get a good bass sound and don't futz with it.

Guitars
(electric)
POD 2.0 direct and cabinet miked same way as bass guitar but with the SM57
(acustic)
Rode NT1

Better yet ... do this: Split the signal with a Morley a/b box or similar ... and give the guy mixing it a direct signal. No amp. No POD. Just straight-up. Then tell your mixer what kind of sound you're going for, and could he run your DI track through an Amp farm setting or whatever else he feels might be appropriate. If it's not too much trouble or too expensive ... ask him if he can re-amp it using an amp that he feels would be appropriate.

(If he does this for you, bring him a case of beer and cookies. He earned 'em.)

I think you'll be much happier with that in the end.

On the accoustic, again, I'd prefer something a little flatter. The NT-1's are just all crazy hyped in the high end, and you might create extra work for the mixer to make it sound passable.

Keys
Triton studio direct

Good.

Vocals
Rode NT1

Read my above quotes about the NT-1. I suppose if it's all ya got.

should I use a mic pre on every miked track?

Only if you want to be able to hear them.

should I tun off the effects section on the Triton to record everything as dry as possible?

Yes.

[SpotlightKid83]

Originally posted by Armistice
If you know nothing about this then you would get a better result if you paid a recording engineer to RECORD you and did the mixing yourself than they way you're planning it.

I do know about recording, not as a pro, but enough.

Originally posted by LRosario
The ghost console is fairly difficult to use if you're not familar with some basic signal flow. So if you do decide to rent it, definitly read up on the features. Don't rent it only to find out, "aww shit, what the hell did I do? I just shelled out some cash for this thing and now I don't even know where to begin".

I am familiar with signal flow, I have used several Mackie, Behringer and Yamaha mixers on different ocasions, I know what each switch and knob means and does, the most difficult thing to do until now is actually finding a rental house that has this mixer. Any other recommendations? Does somebody know any rental house in the Miami area?

[Flamin Lip]

I would say do NOT shut the effects off on the triton/trinity, as the majority of those internal effects are integral to the voice on the synth. If there is something that really bothers ya about the voice, tweak it down, but dont turn the effects off.