Mackie inserts as direct outs/returns to multitrack

[robin watson]

By plugging a Y-cable into the insert of a Mackie 1604 (as you would to patch in a compressor, etc.), and then connecting the send/return portions of that Y-cable to the inputs/outputs of the HD24, would that not give me both a direct out from the mixer to the multitrack (for recording) plus an uninterrupted return path back to mixer (for playback)?

This would seem to me to be a far more elegant setup than a 1/4" jack inserted halfway in, as suggested in the manual. Why is the above scheme not suggested in the manual? Or am I missing something?

[distortedrumble]

plugging it in all the way on the mixer makes it an insert. it will only read whats going into it. plugging it in half way makes it an out

[robin watson]

That much is clear already. But what I'm asking is, will Y-connector fully inserted at the insert point send a recording signal (controled by the Mackie's trim pot) to the HD24, AND ALSO handle the return signal from the HD24, which would then percolate down through the EQ, AUX, fader, etc.

[Jburn34]

It seems like that might work...try it and see if it does, let us know.

[robin watson]

If it does work, it will eliminate four major headaches:

1) The insert will be fully inserted, not a half-in flimsy connection (as is the case with the 'textbook' method of using the insert as a direct out).

2) Line inputs are no longer used as tape returns. This leaves all 16 mic pres free, without the need to unpatch tape returns (line inputs) occupying mic channels you wish to use for recording.

3) Record levels are set simply by the turn of a trim pot (pre EQ).

4) No need to unplug microphones since the Mackie's Mic pres are sending signal through the HD24's inputs first, which are then returned to the Mackie's inserts, i.e, the HD24 automatically 'unpatches' the mics when tracks are not 'record enabled.'

It's so elegantly simple, it's too good to be true. Someone piss on my fireworks, go on.

[Jburn34]

Only drawback is that it would be unbalanced for long cable runs.

[robin watson]

The mic pres remain balanced, however, which is more important. It's unbalanced, but it's line level, not mic level, and the cable run is no more than 1.5 m.

[Paj]

Originally Posted by robin watson

If it does work, it will eliminate four major headaches:
1) The insert will be fully inserted, not a half-in flimsy connection (as is the case with the 'textbook' method of using the insert as a direct out).

YES, THE PROPER CABLE IS ADVANTAGEOUS. BTW, when you say "Y" cable, I hope you're referring to a "stereo" Y with one TRS plug to two TS plugs (often now called an "Insert Cable". Go figure!).

Originally Posted by robin watson

2) Line inputs are no longer used as tape returns. This leaves all 16 mic pres free, without the need to unpatch tape returns (line inputs) occupying mic channels you wish to use for recording.

. . .but you will lose the input pad/trim function on that channel for the tape return signal. Note that only the tape signals will be sent to the main, sub, and aux mixes. The insert return over-rides the channel Lo-Z and Hi-Z inputs and trim pot.

Originally Posted by robin watson

3) Record levels are set simply by the turn of a trim pot (pre EQ).

Yes. Insert sends, like in the Mackie, are pre EQ, pre-fader; the only adjustment is the trim pot. Other boards call their post-EQ-fader-efx channel single channel sends "direct outs"---and these outputs usually have no returns.

Originally Posted by robin watson

4) No need to unplug microphones since the Mackie's Mic pres are sending signal through the HD24's inputs first, which are then returned to the Mackie's inserts, i.e, the HD24 automatically 'unpatches' the mics when tracks are not 'record enabled.'

I don't know if this is exactly true, especially the part about the signal being returned to the Mackie's inserts. I'm not familiar with the HD24 connections. If no signal is sent back to the connected insert return, the channel inputs will not pass their signal to the main, sub, or aux buses.

Originally Posted by robin watson

It's so elegantly simple, it's too good to be true. Someone piss on my fireworks, go on.

Not my intention at all. I hope this helped.

Paj
8^)