snare to loud in overheads ASAP!!!!

[patlang12]

As I type this a friend and I are trying to record a drumset using recorderman's overhead technique. We have them set up like he said. We also have a sm57 on the snare. We built a little windtunnel with rycycling bins, but we are pretty happy with the bass drum. The problem is that the snare is way too loud in the overheads. Even when we turn the snare mic off the snare is way too loud. If anyone has any idea of what we should try please tell me. Please help soon because I don't know how much longer we cand record for. Thanks a lot!

[antennafarm]

tell the drummer to play the snare drum quieter?

[patlang12]

He did play it quieter but it kinda lost the crack sound. I've read that it can help if you turn the snare flat, do you think this will help? Do you have any other suggestions that will help?

[donkeystyle]

Originally Posted by patlang12

As I type this a friend and I are trying to record a drumset using recorderman's overhead technique. We have them set up like he said. We also have a sm57 on the snare. We built a little windtunnel with rycycling bins, but we are pretty happy with the bass drum. The problem is that the snare is way too loud in the overheads. Even when we turn the snare mic off the snare is way too loud. If anyone has any idea of what we should try please tell me. Please help soon because I don't know how much longer we cand record for. Thanks a lot!

well, I believe you're talking about modified spaced micing, right? where you attach a string to the center of the snare and the center of the kick then bring it up to a point to one side of the drummer, put a mic there, then using the same point, you move it to the other side and put a mic there?

if that's the case, you've probably done it perfectly and that's what having the snare perfectly in phase in the overheads sounds like. but is the snare really that much louder than the cymbals? i've used that technique and didn't have that problem. I have 2 ideas that should help.

you can just try compressing the overheads.

or

you could try scooping about 250 hz using a moderate to wide Q. then scoop somewhere around 1 to 3k with a thin, to moderate Q. I wouldn't scoop more than like 6 db at the max, as you used that micing technique for a reason and will probably defeat the purpose of using that technique.

scooping in the 200 to 300 hz range will remove some of the body of the snare and scooping 1 to 3k will remove the attack. so it should make it quieter in the overheads without effecting the the other drums and cymbals too much. It will effect the cymbals a little bit, but if you keep the Q thin enough, it shouldn't be a problem in the mix.

[patlang12]

well the overhead mics have been taken down because we are recording acoustics now, but when I get a chance I will post what I get. Please tell me any other suggestions.

[photoresistor]

tell him to hit his cymbals harder and reduce the gain on the oh's? i dunno... awhile back i had this same problem...

[Cloneboy Studio]

I wish I had that problem more often. Getting tons of snare in the overheads is actually a good thing. If you need a little more cymbal trying compressing the overheads until a balance is reached.

[patlang12]

When I listened to it on the recorder it seemed like there was way too much snare, but when I listen on the computer the amount of snare seems fine. huh? And now the bass drum, which we were happy with, sounds like crap. I don't no.

[Mike Walsh]

Go into the overhead mics in the computer and edit out all the hits from the snare. Engineers do it all the time with hi hats and all the other tom mics.

[boingoman]

LOL. That's gonna make the cymbals sound kinda funny.

[punkin]

I'm not so sure the compression on the OH's is going to work but you could give it a try. The problem you're describing sounds like it's going to need a "big fix" and if you use a compression as the "big fix" the cymbals are going to sound awful.

Give us some detail about the gear and placement used.

[vangore]

nope that a bodged job, raise all the cymbles up higher and the overheads by the same amount and try not to have either if the overheads pointing at the snare.

[patlang12]

Originally Posted by punkin

Give us some detail about the gear and placement used.

I used recorderman's technique. I has one mic two drumsticks above the snare and one over the drummers shoulder that was also two drumsticks from the snare. The mics were gxl 1200's

[donkeystyle]

Originally Posted by patlang12

I used recorderman's technique. I has one mic two drumsticks above the snare and one over the drummers shoulder that was also two drumsticks from the snare. The mics were gxl 1200's

oh, i thought you used a different technique. oh well you still put the snare in phase in the overheads which is what makes it louder. you said that it turned out that it wasn't a problem?

reverse the polarity on the kick, and that might help make it sound more like you remember it.

[patlang12]

the problem I am having with the kick is not the actual kick mic, but the kick in the overheads. What are some good tehcniques when recording to get less kick in the overheads?

[donkeystyle]

Originally Posted by patlang12

the problem I am having with the kick is not the actual kick mic, but the kick in the overheads. What are some good tehcniques when recording to get less kick in the overheads?

just put a roll off starting somewhere around 75 to 100hz.

[patlang12]

OK I will try that.

[donkeystyle]

it wont take the kick out of the overheads, but it should help.

[Cloneboy Studio]

I like a little bit of the kick drum in my overheads. It captures the tone of the kick in ways that close mics will miss. However, rolling off with a high pass filter as suggested above is still a good idea to avoid muddiness.

I often cut my overheads at 600-1000 hz (depending where it sounds good). If I want a meatier sound I sometimes run a shelf filter around 12khz to tame the high end (allowing me to boost the sound of the kit without cymbal sibilance knocking your head off).

The session I'm recording this weekend I used an ancient CAD omni microphone for the "room" mic positioned on the left hand side of the kit pointing at the snare (technically "center of the drum kit" for stereo purposes. Working out nicely so far, but we still have guitars and vocals to do. Will post the results.

[patlang12]

I really don't like the way the bass drum sounds in the overheads. Any suggestions on how to record with no bass drum in the overeheads?

[donkeystyle]

Originally Posted by patlang12

I really don't like the way the bass drum sounds in the overheads. Any suggestions on how to record with no bass drum in the overeheads?

the only way to keep it out of the overheads is to not play the bassdrum.

you could do something really drastic like rolling off everything below like 800hz, and scooping alittle bit of around 3k. you'll be left with only a little bit of drums in the overheads, but the sound of the cymbals will be effected and you'll still have to mix the overheads kind of low.........but if you do that, there really was no reason to use the recorderman o.h. technique. And it might cause more problems that you solve. but it's worth trying i guess.

[photoresistor]

maybe you could try and isolate the kick drum a bit? put a blanket over it or something? i doubt thatd help that much though...

or maybe you could have the drummer not actually play the kick drum... and then dub in the kick drum later lol.... i wonder if that would work very well...

[patlang12]

I think we will be trying to get more a a live feel though so I don't think overdubbing the bass drum will work. I was thinking of a blanket but I was trying figure how to use a blanket without it getting in the way. Any suggestions?

[RecordingMaster]

If your snare is ever too loud in the final mix, and bringing it down in its single track isn't a desired alternative....face the OH's further from the snare. Point the OH's at what the quieter pieces are (maybe your ride or hihat) as opposed to pointing it straight at the snare or your large crash cymbal. Also, you may want to raise your OH's higher above the kit, to let it breathe a bit. Let them catch the overall sound of the kit. This way it should catch every volume more honestly and realistically. If your snare is louder than everything else in your kit when you are in person, then it will come up that way on the recording. If that's the case, avoid aggressive snare rim-shots (which make it sound even LOUDER) and try dampening it with a plastic ring, or just a small amount of paper towel and masking tape.

[leddy]

If you don't like how something sounds in the OH's, it means you probably don't like how it sounds. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

Work on the bass drum sound, mic choice, mic placement, etc. before any drastic eq or compression.