From rap vocals to soul vocals...

[Phobea]

Hi, I don't really know which section I should post this in seeing as it covers a few areas so... fingers crossed.

I'm pretty new to recording, I'd been playing around with Cool Edit Pro for a couple of years as a hobby, recording rap vocals over other people's beats and trying to teach myself the ins and outs of it all. I was on a very slow learning curve as I hadn't any peers doing the same thing, or any real motivation.

Anyway, long story short last summer I hit a big break in the industry and decided to set up a slightly more serious studio in my bedroom, because I really find it difficult to get creative anywhere else. I started composing my own tracks with a MIDI keyboard and some softsynths and just read a shitload of magazine and internet articles about it all.

Last summer my group project acquired a female vocalist and this is where the problems started.

I think I'd gotten into some really bad habits in recording vocals. I was using a cheap kareoke mic (that actually sounded quite like an SM58 in retrospect) with a DJ Mixer as a preamp and my tracks got used to being an abundance of filters trying to make up for the poor equipment (hard-limiting each track, 2 or 3 warmifiers on each track, etc.) and some chap taught me an 'insider secret'.

He taught me to record my vocals in 5 layers: 1 lead, 2 backing, and 2 'adlib' (to emphasise certain parts), panning the layers like a pyramid with the lead at the top, same goes for the volume. This worked pretty well, it made my vocals seem a lot wider and they sat in the mix a lot nicer, but as my ear has become more an more trained I'm noticing I can hear the layers and I really don't like it (am I just mixing them too loud?). Also, I have a large condenser mic now (M-Audio Solaris) and a decent pre, so I'm really just wondering if I can go back to recording one layer of lead vocals and adding a little delay or chorus to widen it (I've always used reverb, am only now discovering delay)... does anybody know the common practice for rap vocals?

I'm a bit confused because the guy who taught me the pyramid thing was just a novice like me.. but last summer I recorded with one of the best hip-hop engineers in the US and he used pretty much the same technique... but I'm really a purist and my beats are all very acoustic and it just seems as though the vocals aren't sitting right anymore.

Use my ears, I know, but I'm just wondering what anybody else who records rap vocals does?

Anyway back to the original problem - the soul singer - and yes, I have been using the same pyramid technique with her vocals and I've got to say, it doesn't sound good at all. What is the standard way of recording female soul/pop vocals? Would I be better to use a chorus/backing-vocals plugin than to try and use her dicarded layers as backing vocals? Her vocals sound far too 'harsh' lately and no amount of reverb or warmth or eq or anything is fixing it, do I just need a better mic for her?

I record in Logic 5.5 and one day I got really lucky and acquired the Waves Platinum and Masters bundles so I've no shortage of quality mixing effects... I'm just stuck on the fundamentals.

Any ideas?

[B-Mac_DsP]

as far as the rapping aspect goes...i have heard about the pyramid technique, although i don't use it...i normally just record my verse....add a lil reverb, then go do my adlibs and add some reverb to them....maybe someone with a lil more knowledge on it can come spk up for u....

you got a site to peep ya tracks????


holla

[Phobea]

Yeah, a few of them are up on my site - http://phobea.com
and a few more on my soundclicks - http://www.soundclick.com/phobea, http://www.soundclick.com/clockworkchapel.

All those were recorded with either my old setup or in a proper studio, though.

[B-Mac_DsP]

aye we might have to do a lil collab mayne....if u supply a hot beat and we do a track on it...ill put it on the radio cuz....im a dj at the local rap station down here... holla at ya boy


holla

[ryanlikestorock]

What is it about this technique that isn't working with the female vocals?

Play around with compression and chorus effects on the backing vocals if they're cutting through too much.

[Phobea]

B-Mac - PM me a link to some of your work.

Ryan - The most noticeable problems are that I can hear the different layers (really reluctant to use Autotune and/or Vocalign) and that the mid-high frequencies are particularly harsh (I'm not good enough with EQ to transparently fix that yet).

I suppose I'm not so much asking what's wrong with the way I currently do things, moreso I'm asking how other people do things.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by Phobea

(I'm not good enough with EQ to transparently fix that yet).

.

So start practicing. When you know how to EQ vox properly you can make almost any unusable trash(sonically) take of a vox and make it useable.

[Phobea]

Naturally I am practicing constantly, and I'm sure I'll get there in the end, I'm just wondering if anything aspect of the way I'm doing things is causing these problems.

I was always taught that it's better to prevent the problem than fix it.

I'm also keen to find out how other people record female soul/pop vocals - the amount of layers, panning, backing vocals, harmonies, etc.

[mixandmaster]

Usually, the better the vocalist, the more layers you can add...so maybe the vocalist is the problem.

[Phobea]

She's definately lacking recording experience and finds getting exact takes difficult, but her voice is amazing.

[KayLo]

Recording for me all depends on the song. If it needs to be full like hard hitting hip hop song, i'll record 1 lead, 2 backgrounds and pan them L and R. with the lead a little louder than the panned tracks. This is when im recording rap.

When im singing, I just go by ear. Record as many vocal takes as long as they sounds good. Sometimes the vocal really needs to stand out in an RnB song (eg. Pregnant - R Kelly). Other times they just need to be blended in with tha beat. In that case i just add a little reverb / delay to the main vocal and maybe soft adlibs.

Try EQing the female voice. On the eq curve just push the mid to bass a little up, to try and eliminate the harshness, which probably is too much treble. When she's recording, does it peak? Coz that might be the problem as well. Just tell her to sing in a half voice (sing the notes but dont sing it with her full voice, try to hold back on the notes), which doesnt use all her power but still sounds really good and adds a kind of warmth to the vocal. With this half voice technique, she can record double the takes, which makes the track more full, and eliminates that 'harshness'.

Hope this helps.

KayLo - SweetBoys
www.youtube.com/kaylotunes
www.myspace.com/sweetboys
www.youtube.com/zaidoon123

[Massive Master]

This thread is five years old.

I've got a feeling it's all handled by now.

[raywon]

Check out my song on myspace.com/bammafreeentainment (So Shook Up)
lead vocal no effects alilibs pan l/r back ground vocal no effects

[hiphop24360]

stackings not really an insider secret as much as something everybody does / has done / prefers or does not prefer / works with a certain song/artist but not at all for another.

Thing about stacking is the artist has to be able to nail each take in perfect time and almost perfect pitch or else the whole thing is a pain in the ass. Its actually a good way to get rappers to practice their delivery over and over untill the BV's can be played almost as loud as the lead with no issues. . . Of course now there is vocalign, haven't tried it, don't need to.

Most Hip Hop cats now days can't hit those perfect doubles and sometimes even if they can doubling is not the way to go, at all..... certain artists are incredible on the doubling; Tupac and Eminem come to mind.....Others just kill it with the one takes....I wanna say BIG and Lil Wayne (but that might just be the "writing on the spot" thing not doubles (which are different than punch ins, which I think all Hip Hop uses, mostly?)

Any rate heres another insider tip for the five year old thread, "Get tracked out beats"