Want to record acoustic

[jamesrb]

Hi, I am completely new here, but would like to record some acoustic tracks on my computer, and do not know what I need.

I have a very limited budget and would like to achieve the best quality I can with very little spending.

I have an Acoustic with passive pickups. I started by plugging into my soundcard's (Audigy 2 ZS) line-in and got nothing. Then, I plugged into the Mic-in and got nothing. I then went into the sound properties and checked the 20db mic boost box and got sound... It just wasn't very pretty at all.

Anyways, I have looked around and not really figured out what exactly I need.

Thanks,
JR

[Outlaws]

Originally Posted by jamesrb

Hi, I am completely new here, but would like to record some acoustic tracks on my computer, and do not know what I need.

I have a very limited budget and would like to achieve the best quality I can with very little spending.

I have an Acoustic with passive pickups. I started by plugging into my soundcard's (Audigy 2 ZS) line-in and got nothing. Then, I plugged into the Mic-in and got nothing. I then went into the sound properties and checked the 20db mic boost box and got sound... It just wasn't very pretty at all.

Anyways, I have looked around and not really figured out what exactly I need.

Thanks,
JR

You need a Preamp and that will go into your LineIn. Then you can either use the stock XP recorder for like 1 minute of music, or you can get a program for it. Someone else will give you a better idea for a multitrack program than I could.

[jamesrb]

so it goes like this:

guitar --> preamp --> line-in

I have a few different software for recording, so software isn't going to be a big deal. I do not plan on adding any effects, just want to lay down some half-decent sounding acoustic tracks...

Can anybody recommend a pre-amp for this application?

[philpereira]

i think a lot of people would agree that you should try to get a mic and to mic your acoustic instead of using its pickup. pickups are generally only used in live situations. there's a thread on this that was put up recently, it'll give you a better idea regarding the pros and cons of acoustic pickups. a decent mic for recording runs around $100 (the shure sm57, which ive heard is fine for recording acoustics). i'm sure others will give you good suggestions for both mics and preamps.

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by jamesrb

Hi, I am completely new here, but would like to record some acoustic tracks on my computer, and do not know what I need.

I have a very limited budget and would like to achieve the best quality I can with very little spending.

I have an Acoustic with passive pickups. I started by plugging into my soundcard's (Audigy 2 ZS) line-in and got nothing. Then, I plugged into the Mic-in and got nothing. I then went into the sound properties and checked the 20db mic boost box and got sound... It just wasn't very pretty at all.

Anyways, I have looked around and not really figured out what exactly I need.

Thanks,
JR

I'm not sure exactly what your budget is or what style you are playing, but here is what I have: Pair of MXL 603s condenser mics ($200 new) + M-Audio DMP3 preamp ($160 new, much less used -- got mine for $90 on e-bay). This combo is great for acoustic. On a tighter budget, you could get a single condenser, such as the MXL 990, or the Studio Projects B1 with the same preamp, or even an Audio Buddy pre. That will almost certainly give you a sound far superior to plugging your acoustic/electric directly into the computer.

[jamesrb]

man, all of that is far too expensive for me. Working at minimum wage, and trying to pay for college too.

How bad would the sound be pluggin in directly, with a preamp?

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by jamesrb

man, all of that is far too expensive for me. Working at minimum wage, and trying to pay for college too.

How bad would the sound be pluggin in directly, with a preamp?

The sound of a piezo pickup direct is very harsh and brittle to my ears. It is a usable sound for just getting ideas recorded, but I wouldn't impose it upon other listeners. Some people go direct all the time. It's really just a matter of taste. If you are really on a budget, look into the ART Tube MP ($50), Behringer MIC200, or M-Audio Audio Buddy ($80) preamps. They are inexpensive and will at least allow you to record.

[jamesrb]

1. are those three you mentioned for direct recording then?

2. if so, i noticed that they all are aimed at microphones, so i guess there isnt much difference between microphone and acoustic preamps. So am i correct in thinking I could grab one of these now for direct recording and just add a mic (when budget allows)?

3. Which of these do you recommend? I know m-audio makes good products, but I have never heard of these other two companies. The ART one is the more appealing of the three due to its price, but for better durability, quality, or functionality i may spend a little more for the behringer or M-audio products.

[scrubs]

all those are mic preamps that can double as direct input boxes. They will supply the necessary gain and impedance matching for direct recording. If you can spring for it, something like this might be the best option for you:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--TCHADI

SansAmp is known for making decent direct boxes that "simulate" the sound of a mic on a speaker. See if you can get to a music store (take your guitar) and try a few out.

[5150 Musician]

My first acoustic recording was done on my HP 667mhz Desktop Windows 98 computer with "Cakewalk Music Creator 2003" that I purchased back then at Staples for $40. I used one Shure SM57. I think I was just using my SoundBlaster, yeah. I was using a cheap old Roland 4 channel Line Mixer and using it to connect to the soundcard. I recorded the guitar, added a tad of EQ and compression, and it sounded very good. Everyone who heard it thought it sounded excellent. I still have the mp3 somewhere, I'll have to dig it out.

[jamesrb]

wow, that looks neat but is definitely too expensive for me right now.

I guess $100 max, but preferably under $75...

[Armistice]

If you have any musical friends perhaps get a little co-op going. If you knew 3 other people and everyone ponied up $100 then you'll get a nice little set up you can share around.

Just a thought...

[jamesrb]

well, I have almost decided to get one of the previously mentioned preamps so I can add a mic later when I get enough money.

I also plan on picking up a little live playing over the summer where I will need to plug in to an XLR on a moderately cheap PA system, so I will be able to use the preamp then too...

Will these offer decent quality for these intended uses?Can anybody suggest one of the three mentioned above or another one about the same price range? I really do not know what separates a good preamp from a bad one, and have never used anything like this before, so I could use some help here.

[onlyfingers]

Soon after I joined this board, I commented in the Microphones board that I was using Radio Shack mics to my Walkman D6 (analog), and I liked it just fine. (The tag line on the Mics board says the board will help you understand why you can't buy mics at Radio Shack. I'm from Missouri.) My needs are modest. I have to record live practices so I can practice on my own without the group, and I make my own practice tracks of chord progressions. If you are low on funds, Radio Shack might be the way to accomplish what you need. The ones I got are the 33-3104 model. I got two (stereo!), they were about $25 each, I think.

Of course, at some point, the RS mic will be sitting on the shelf unused, when you move on to a real mic. The risk is that the point where it goes on the shelf might be the very day you buy the mic.

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by jamesrb

Will these offer decent quality for these intended uses?Can anybody suggest one of the three mentioned above or another one about the same price range? I really do not know what separates a good preamp from a bad one, and have never used anything like this before, so I could use some help here.

I have not used any of the 3 pres I suggested, but they are about the only ones available in your pricerange. If $100 is the most you can spend, I would recommend the Audio Buddy, as it has 2 channels. That would allow you to do stereo recording (with 2 mics) or plug two sources (guitar + vocal mic) in at the same time. The Audio Buddy is used by many people on this board with good results. The other pres (ART Tube MP or Behringer MIC100/MIC200) have a variable "tube" sound, which adds "color" (=distortion) to the recording. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on what you are looking for.

Use the Search function at the top of the page to find more viewpoints on these products and perhaps some recordings made with them.

[jamesrb]

I was just looking at the specs of the preamps again. Isnt the impedance on an A/E with passive electronics over a couple mega-ohms usually?

Theres no way anybody could get good sound from a mic pre with one of those direct plugged, seeing as for example the Audio Buddy states an input impedance of 100k ohms. So to record a passive A/E direct you would need something with an input impedance of several meg ohms in order to avoid a completely "tinny" sound.

Can anybody confirm this because I am just starting to get a grasp on some of this stuff.


I am still confused though. Is it the impedance or the gain that is important for the preamp?

For example say there is one that has an input inpedance of 10mega-ohms and max of 33dB of gain. How would that compare to something that had an input impedance of only 840k ohm and 70dB of gain?

How can I tell what is sufficient for getting the passive pickup to line level?

[jamesrb]

anybody there?

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by jamesrb

I was just looking at the specs of the preamps again. Isnt the impedance on an A/E with passive electronics over a couple mega-ohms usually?

Theres no way anybody could get good sound from a mic pre with one of those direct plugged, seeing as for example the Audio Buddy states an input impedance of 100k ohms. So to record a passive A/E direct you would need something with an input impedance of several meg ohms in order to avoid a completely "tinny" sound.

Can anybody confirm this because I am just starting to get a grasp on some of this stuff.


I am still confused though. Is it the impedance or the gain that is important for the preamp?

For example say there is one that has an input inpedance of 10mega-ohms and max of 33dB of gain. How would that compare to something that had an input impedance of only 840k ohm and 70dB of gain?

How can I tell what is sufficient for getting the passive pickup to line level?

I have no idea what you are talking about. If the manual says it can be used as a direct box, then I assume it will take care of impedance matching. Any of those boxes with a 1/4" input will convert your high impedance (pickup) signal to a low impedance line-level signal for recording.

Preamp gain is more important. I don't know what a typical passive acoustic pickup needs, but I DI my passive bass all the time through small preamps (DMP3, VTB-1) and they supply plenty of gain.

Maybe some electronics whiz will help you out, because it is all Deutsche to me.

[noodles2k5]

You could always get an analog mixer.

Guitars, XLR microphones, etc --> Mixer --> Line-In

[jamesrb]

here is a really good web page describing impedance that I found last night: Impedance FAQ

[Kore]

I've had pretty good success combining a single mic and using a passive pickup. SOmeone mentioned that pickups are usually only for live applications--true, but it can be nice for narrowing dynamics and adding sound w/o so much clickiness. Strange tone, but gives an interesting effect.

I used a crappy PC mic and used my POD as a DI (with the floorboard, when the tuner is on, POD gives a really clean direct sound--I don't know how to get this without the floorboard plugged in, though).

As crappy as it sounds, I managed some incredibly good sounding acoustic guitar in a normal basement room with a PC mic and passive pickup --->POD--->line in. I never would have believed it, had I not heard it, too.